Are there any versions of Genesis games that are better then the SNES verision?

[pepharytheworm]

What this topic needs is a list of all the games that were made for both systems and then we all can vote for each game. That way we have a running list of all the games and a general census of what people feel is the best version for each game.

I am too tired too make a list, why don't you start. It should be two lists though. One for ports, and another for versions. Aladdin is not a port but a different game so it would be in the version list, since both are still a version of Aladdin. Some would be hard to say like TMNT IV/TMNT MP since they are remixed ports pretty much.

[tom]

What is also true that Sega made far better games for the Megadrive than Nintendo for the SNES.

[Icarus Moonsight]

All I can say as far as the music tangent goes is; I very much want to use a Genesis to produce music with... where I'd never even consider using an SNES. Anything special or unique that the SNES does, a 15 year old POS computer can do better, and even more. The Genny is special. Anyone that isn't into electronic music or the instruments involved would probably not understand or care about this though. Allyourbase seems to understand, maybe along with a few others in the thread. Have you heard the genny pump out TB303-esque synth basslines? For a piece of late 80's consumer tech, it's insane to even guess at how it does them so well. It's best features were mostly pushed aside or was dreadfully underutilized by most of the game makers that produced cross-platform games.

Not to say that the SNES is bad or lacking for it's music, far from it. There are some great pieces produced on the platform (ActRaiser 2 being forefront at mind and a longtime favorite of mine). But the Genny takes too much shit on this front from people who don't even know why they don't like what they say they don't like. "Genesis sound sucks!" It's a meaningless bromide when left merely at that.

The truth is many of the folks that integrated the music for games back then were not musicians. They were designers, engineers, technicians or dabblers for the most part. The sound generation system of the Genesis is an actual synth instrument, not merely a score sheet playing pre-generated tones/voices (SNES MIDI/Sampling). They could take a piece of sheet music and copy it over to the SNES and insert some preset/default samples or MIDI instrument voices to it (they'd do this for the Genesis port/version in many cases too, with disastrous results - synth presets). One had to 'play' the Genny to get anything as good or better (than the SNES) out of it. The output quality depended on the talent and ability of the person working it. The SNES sound system was just more accessible, better results for less effort and knowledge, but that came with more limitations on expression, where the Genny, in the right hands, had much fewer. It's just that many didn't take the time to do it or didn't know how.

I throw these out for some examples, first is a non-port SNES/Gen comparator and the second is a sample of the TB303 stuff I mentioned.

Castlevania IV Track on Genny - Simons Theme - I prefer this version, though I like them both.
FM 303 Drum&Bass - Contra HC: JB303

Ack! Forgot about the OP... I usually take Genesis versions over the SNES, but not always. I'm more lenient on graphics than anything else, as long as it's not god awful in the difference, I'm alright. I grade gameplay and control the harshest. As for the rest, mostly, I'm more interested in the version that has more going for it, all around. In most cases, for my taste, it swings toward Gen. Sunset Riders is one I swing SNES on, but then again, who doesn't?

[Nintega Grafx-16]

Proof that sometimes Genesis does what Nintendon't

Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV - Stage 8 BGM

[Rob2600]

Castlevania IV Track on Genny - Simons Theme - I prefer this version, though I like them both.
FM 303 Drum&Bass - Contra HC: JB303

That Genesis version of "Simon's Theme" sounds thin, grating, and lacks bass. The SNES version from Super Castlevania IV sounds much better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KqUbTi6jN8&fmt=18

I see your point about the Genesis synth chip being flexible and powerful...but, many of the examples of Genesis music I've heard sound either thin, shrill, scratchy (low-res distorted samples), or all of the above. I've heard a few examples of Genesis music that sound impressive, but it's almost always 1980s-sounding synth pop. You seem to be a big fan of that genre, so of course, you're going to love it and lean toward the Genesis.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of that genre, so that type of music gets old fast to me. I think to myself, "Wow, that's all the Genesis audio chips can do? It's a one-trick pony...not very versatile."

Whereas with the SNES, I've heard very nice-sounding orchestrated music (Super Castlevania IV, Chrono Trigger, ActRasier, etc.), rock music (Rock 'n' Roll Racing, Street Fighter II, etc.), funk and new age music (F-Zero, Pilotwings, etc.), plus songs with vocals (Clay Fighter title screen), so the SNES comes across as being more versatile and powerful to me.

Of course, there's some horrendous music on the SNES - there's horrendous music on the Genesis, too - but in the right hands, I'm more impressed with SNES music than I am with Genesis music. Keep in mind, I'm more impressed with a nicely orchestrated piece (e.g. the Super Castlevania IV cave, Batman Returns Arctic World, or the Yoshi's Island credits music) than I am with a techno synth piece (e.g. your Contra: Hard Corps link, very thin and repetitive).

The first time I played my SNES in 1991, I immediately noticed how much more realistic the music sounded compared to the NES and Genesis. For the first time, I was hearing real instruments instead of chip tunes. Now don't get me wrong, I love and appreciate good chip tunes, but the SNES audio chip was unlike anything I'd ever heard before in a home video game. I was blown away by the music in Super Castlevania IV (realistic strings, flutes, organs, bass guitars, French horns, timpani, etc.), but found the music in Sonic the Hedgehog to be more of the same old chip stuff...even though it was done well. The SNES sounded so much more advanced to me and still does in many cases.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Yeah, in midi/samples vs a tone generator for real-life-sounding instruments, it's simply no contest. SNES will do it much better because it was better designed where you can use a midi voice or chunk a snippet of the actual (mic) captured voice of the instrument and modulate it to any pitch required and replay the sample with just a time and pitch reference. The Genesis can do it also, but not anywhere near as well. Notice the tendency of SNES ports human voice samples to be worlds better than Genesis to see the practice. Same for guitar and symphonic/orchestral instruments. However, If you are wanting to change the oscillator freq, waveform, attack, decay, brightness, or drop, open or close an envelope or filter (have total control over the generated sound, within the specs) you want a Genesis over the SNES. It's a give and take, with the entailed win-some and lose-some. Samples can take up quite a bit of ram too. Where the data array ram required for the synth settings is minimal by comparison.

I changed the video link, because it was a bad capture of Simons Theme. Reference cans seems to help too for the 'lack of bass'. They do sound flat/thin through PC/laptop speakers.

Proof that sometimes Genesis does what Nintendon't

Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV - Stage 8 BGM

Thanks you for that link! Forgot about LF... That's going on my mp3 player stat!

Sorry, please excuse the music nerds... We can't help ourselves.

[Rob2600]

Proof that sometimes Genesis does what Nintendon't

Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV - Stage 8 BGM

As I've written before, that song is impressive for the Genesis, but it sounds distorted and fuzzy overall. I know it's supposed to be a distorted electric guitar, but the entire song sounds too overdriven...and/or the guitar samples are too low-res.

Does the actual game sound like that or is it just a poorly recorded, clipped audio track in the YouTube video?

[fahlim003]

As I've written before, that song is impressive for the Genesis, but it sounds distorted and fuzzy overall. I know it's supposed to be a distorted electric guitar, but the entire song sounds too overdriven...and/or the guitar samples are too low-res.

Does the actual game sound like that or is it just a poorly recorded, clipped audio track in the YouTube video?

Thank youtube, I hear quite a bit of distortion compared to the original soundtrack. Otherwise, one of the best on Genesis, music-wise to be sure.

[Icarus Moonsight]

The mp3 mediafire link is in the description. Might want to give that a try. I noticed quite a difference. Only thing that my ear is expecting and missing is better defined cymbals on the drum track... But you have the distorted metal 5ths guitar, bass and the lead synth already along with bass drum, snare and tom fills that shine over the wispy cymbals. Still, it's impressive...

Damn, I'm going to have to say sorry twice arn't I?

[Rob2600]

SNES EarthBound heavy metal music "Pokey Means Business" (skip to 0:53) vs. Genesis Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV heavy metal music Stage 8. Which one sounds better?

If you are wanting to change the oscillator freq, waveform, attack, decay, brightness, or drop, open or close an envelope or filter (have total control over the generated sound, within the specs) you want a Genesis over the SNES.

Yes, but that type of stuff is mainly used in synth pop and techno. So on the Genesis, you can have awesome electronica or poorly orchestrated music. That doesn't seem like much flexibility to me.

TMNT IV: Turtles in Time (Alleycat Blues and Sewer Surfin'), EarthBound (Battle Against a Weird Opponent, Battle Against a Machine, and Sky Runner), and NBA Jam Tournament Edition (title screen) are examples of SNES synth/electronic music. I'm sure there are better examples, but these are the ones I know of.

Overall, in the right hands, I think the SNES can pull off a wider variety - and better sounding - music than the Genesis.

Samples can take up quite a bit of ram too. Where the data array ram required for the synth settings is minimal by comparison.

Well, the SNES does have quite a bit more RAM than the Genesis.

Thank youtube, I hear quite a bit of distortion compared to the original soundtrack. Otherwise, one of the best on Genesis, music-wise to be sure.

Thanks for clearing that up and confirming my suspicions. I downloaded and listened to the MP3 file and the sound quality is better than the YouTube video, but it still has that shrill, grating, annoying Genesis tone to it. The song is impressive overall, but piercing.

[allyourblood]

All I can say as far as the music tangent goes is; I very much want to use a Genesis to produce music with...

Failing that, get a Yamaha DX21 and you'll be dangerously close.

[pato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5nVYcfylzc

Music for Super Adventure Island for SNES. Done by non other then legendary composer Yuzo Koshiro.

Of course we all know that he was responsible for the music in Revenge of Shinobi and the Streets of Rage series on the Genesis\Mega Drive. Here is one composer that got quality from both machines and pulled off some very impressive stuff. Yuzo also made an impressive soundtrack for Actraiser for the SNES actually. Anyways...

I am in the same boat as some here that say that both had their strengths and weaknesses. The one thing about the SNES is that unless you have a powerful PC to run the proper emulator, the sound is not accurate compared to an actual SNES. The only thing that I could say the SNES was superior in, was perhaps in voice clarity. Then again, in the right hands, the Genesis could pull off good voice samples.

[PresidentLeever]

SNES EarthBound heavy metal music "Pokey Means Business" (skip to 0:53) vs. Genesis Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV heavy metal music Stage 8. Which one sounds better?

Yes, but that type of stuff is mainly used in synth pop and techno. So on the Genesis, you can have awesome electronica or poorly orchestrated music. That doesn't seem like much flexibility to me.

Pretty different styles there, I think this one is more appropriate for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shOg6...related&fmt=18

In either songs though I prefer the guitar sound in TFIV, it's more menacing and gritty and it sounds more like an instrument being played than a sample being shaped into a melody, if that makes any sense. Also keep in mind that TFIV isn't using samples for its drums, only FM.

To me it's pretty obvious that an 80s FM chip isn't going to excel at non electronic music, but that doesn't mean it's not flexible as far as different timbres and the high to low end spectrum goes. The SNES can sample any synth sound of course, but it won't sound as good as the original source. Apart from the above posted Adventure Island, there are few SNES games with bass as good as most MD games. The filters on the SNES chip (which is removed or improved by most emulators) also removes some clarity from the sound.

As for orchestrated music on MD, these are the most impressive soundtracks I could think of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9oip...related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOagv...related&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brUFB...related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6pY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMsrHCFXj0
Fan made, 6:50


To balance this post out a bit, I would also like to post one of the worst uses of the MD chip I've heard, from Doom 32X:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oyw...eature=related

[j_factor]

Yes, but that type of stuff is mainly used in synth pop and techno. So on the Genesis, you can have awesome electronica or poorly orchestrated music. That doesn't seem like much flexibility to me.

The term "electronica" covers worlds and worlds of music. There are big differences between trance, techno, hardcore, jungle, downbeat, electro, big beat, etc.

This does all come down to taste though. Personally, orchestrated music on the SNES never impressed me. It's more realistic than Genesis, but it still doesn't sound as good as a real orchestra. Whereas, nothing does Genesis-style music better than the Genesis. The Genesis soundchip is basically its own unique multi-faceted instrument, like a Groovebox.

Also, I had a Turbo CD for two years before I had an SNES. So to me the SNES's "realistic instruments" were a significant step down. Whereas the Genesis was more of a step sideways, to a different sound.

Something that kind of demonstrates this is the "Sega Tunes" CD series. It's a series of five Genesis game soundtrack CD's, where they took tracks from the game and remade them with real instruments. Instead of simply sounding better, they sound very different. Whereas with the Final Fantasy VI orchestral soundtrack (Grand Finale), it just sounds like much better versions of the same tracks.

Thanks for clearing that up and confirming my suspicions. I downloaded and listened to the MP3 file and the sound quality is better than the YouTube video, but it still has that shrill, grating, annoying Genesis tone to it. The song is impressive overall, but piercing.

The fact that it's "piercing" is part of what I like about it. It's supposed to sound that way; it was intended. It's not trying to be Brian Eno. You must not like any sort of hard electronica, industrial, or punk rock.

[123►Genei-Jin]

This is one track I like on both systems:
Earthworm Jim 2 - Lorenzen's Soil (Genesis)

Earthworm Jim 2 - Lorenzen's Soil (SNES)

I like the SNES version a bit better though.

[Rob2600]

Apart from the above posted Adventure Island, there are few SNES games with bass as good as most MD games.

The Genesis games I grew up playing had hardly any bass at all (Altered Beast, Space Harrier II, Golden Axe, etc.). Sonic the Hedgehog sounded a bit better, but still very synthy. I've always preferred the sampled instruments of the SNES.

As for orchestrated music on MD, these are the most impressive soundtracks I could think of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9oip...related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOagv...related&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brUFB...related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6pY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMsrHCFXj0
Fan made, 6:50

Nice examples. They sound very good...but again, too much on the synthy side for me. I still prefer SNES music most of the time. I guess it's just a matter of taste.

To balance this post out a bit, I would also like to post one of the worst uses of the MD chip I've heard, from Doom 32X:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oyw...eature=related

Wow. Why did the developer bother creating "music" at all?? On the SNES side, I present to you Pit-Fighter. There's only one song in the entire game that loops infinitely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8t3Z1EtXwY&fmt=18

I apologize in advance.

The term "electronica" covers worlds and worlds of music. ... This does all come down to taste though. Personally, orchestrated music on the SNES never impressed me. It's more realistic than Genesis, but it still doesn't sound as good as a real orchestra. ... I had a Turbo CD for two years before I had an SNES. So to me the SNES's "realistic instruments" were a significant step down.

Maybe I'm weird, but I've never been a fan of redbook/digitized audio in video games. It seems like cheating to me. Anybody can make redbook audio. I'm much more impressed by a developer who sweats over the MIDI music and pushes the limitations to create fantastic sounding real-time music.

The fact that it's "piercing" is part of what I like about it. It's supposed to sound that way; it was intended. It's not trying to be Brian Eno. You must not like any sort of hard electronica, industrial, or punk rock.

I like some classic punk rock, but I don't recall any Ramones songs featuring thin, grating, high pitched 1980s synths.

This is one track I like on both systems:
Earthworm Jim 2 - Lorenzen's Soil (Genesis)

Earthworm Jim 2 - Lorenzen's Soil (SNES)

I like the SNES version a bit better though.

The SNES version sounds excellent!

[j_factor]

I like some classic punk rock, but I don't recall any Ramones songs featuring thin, grating, high pitched 1980s synths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj29sqvKb6U

(It was an analogy, by the way.)

[tom]

So far we been hearing the music in comparisons, and the Megadrive coming out top 99% of the time.

[allyourblood]

Maybe I'm weird, but I've never been a fan of redbook/digitized audio in video games. It seems like cheating to me. Anybody can make redbook audio. I'm much more impressed by a developer who sweats over the MIDI music and pushes the limitations to create fantastic sounding real-time music.

A large portion of music in CD-based games (well, a lot of the orchestral stuff, anyway) from the early 90s was recorded using MIDI and generated by synthesizers and tone generators; save for the occasional guitar lead, most what you hear is a synthesizer, including drums and bass. A perfect example would be Ys I & II for the Turbo CD, although there are literally hundreds more. Take your SNES, record its output to your computer, edit, master and submit. They're the same thing, although obviously a lot more steps are involved in actual live audio recording - things like effects, compression, levels, mastering...

Anybody can make redbook audio? I'm guessing you've not spent much time with MIDI/synthesizers/music production in general. If you had, you'd know that composing on a synthesizer is ridiculously easy compared to producing a professional live performance and mastering it to CD. At best, SNES music is an extraordinarily rudimentary approach to the previous paragraph. At worst, it doesn't come close to the complexity and effort involved in recording CD audio.

There also isn't much happening on your SNES that could be considered real-time -- at least, not when compared to redbook. With each, at the end of the day you have a device that is converting instructions into audio; your SNES is acting as a player piano of sorts.

And as for pushing the limits, if you consider playing a synthesizer into a sequencer, quantizing, and then selecting what wavetable track to use in the SNES to be difficult ("hmm... shall I choose pizzicato strings or harp for this part?"), well...

[allyourblood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj29sqvKb6U

(It was an analogy, by the way.)

OH SNAP.