Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

[Bojay1997]

Oh geez. Seriously? :)

You compare $60 for triple AAA titles like Uncharted and Breath of the Wild to $25 Neurovoider? Should this show how affordable LR games are? Seriously?

'Millions of gamers spend $60 for games and tens of thousands of people buy Limited Editions' Should this show that someone who spends well over $1000 a month on games is like everyone else? Seriously? I can tell you, the average gamer (and lots of them) buy the Steelbook edition of the new FF XIII but they won't spend then $1500 for other games.

The other stuff is from LR and of course I believe (and we all should) every word from them.

This discussion is over on my part. Put defense walls up as high as nonsense can go. It starts to hurt intellectually. I mean that in all seriousness!

Yes, it's $35 cheaper than the typical new release game that in the modern era may not even have a single player campaign and if it does, it's lucky to be more than a few hours. Personally, I think owning a copy of a good indie game is a much more enjoyable experience than paying $60 for the latest FPS or sports game. Obviously not everyone agrees, but things have different values to different people and it's not your right to decide what something should be worth to anyone else. I also think you underestimate how much disposable income gamers have today, especially as the economy has slowly recovered. I spend time on many forums and there are lots of people who can and do spend hundreds of dollars a month on video games. They can certainly afford to spend $25 on a game (i.e. four trips to Starbucks) if it's something they are interested in.

You really do have a lot of nerve calling others elitist given the links in your signature block. You literally have shelves full of factory sealed CEs and LEs as well as standard edition games. You also have a number of games from companies that hype limited numbers and the risk of selling out on a regular basis and games that I know for a fact never dropped below MSRP or sold out during the preorder period and couldn't be purchased for MSRP or less if you missed the narrow window. I don't know many people who can afford to have large sealed and CE/LE collections and while I personally have no issue with people collecting however they so choose, you've definitely built a collection that would be considered by many to be elite in nature. I mean do you even play any of the niche games you buy or do you just let them sit there collecting dust after you reattach the disc that has come loose in shipping? Frankly, I think you're probably just one of these hypocrites who can't get out of his own way. It's really sad that you can't be happy for others and instead have to act on your insecurity by lashing out at anyone else you perceive to not be doing things in exactly the way you narrow mindedly believe they should be done.

[lendelin]

Holy...are you ok?????

[megasdkirby]

Once again...UPS Innovations suck ass. My package of Furi and Darius Burst is MIA all thanks to this horrid service. Now I have to wait a month in order to get a replacement. Sucks.

[SparTonberry]

They can certainly afford to spend $25 on a game (i.e. four trips to Starbucks) if it's something they are interested in.


At least Starbucks is open for more than 10 minutes and doesn't threaten us with having to buy on ebay.

Nintendo rarely budges on MSRP either but why do they print Mario games for years after release? I mean, surely if you want a Mario game, you're going to buy it in the first 10 minutes?
(yes, I know and I'm still mad about some of the LE BS they've done. But at least they have sense to not make it their ONLY business model.)

Maybe Atlus is a better comparison? I do remember they themselves had joked about their small production runs on some games back in like the GBA era. But it seems like they've done better about reprinting in-demand games, like SMT, since then. I do remember them saying some stuff was made to sell in bigger numbers.
I've assumed Working Designs, one of the most niche publishers, balance between RPGs and action games (which were probably more profitable, since they had less localization needed) I assume was to maintain some sustainability. I mean RPGs were limited by virtue of that in the '90s due to that prior to the close release of FF7 and Pokemon, few people really wanted them.
If you are running a business that has some concern about gaming, and wants people to actually play your games, and not just collectors that will buy everything when they're told to (like waving a doggie treat to a dog), you have to at least attempt to make your product available to a wider audience.
If what you have is a product manufactured to be a collectible, then yes, LRG is the way to go.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, UPS Mail Innovations stinks. LRG said the only reason they're using them for domestic orders is because they were better for international orders, and to get them to do international orders, LRG had to agree to allow them to handle ALL of their shipments. They just hand the packages off to USPS at some point anyway, so UPS Mail Innovations is literally just a pointless middleman that results in wasted time and a more convoluted shipping process. I've noticed my packages from LRG are showing up markedly slower now, and they were rarely fast to begin with. And I'm not even terribly far away from LRG, since I'm on the East Coast too. I finally received my Vita copy of DariusBurst about a week ago. Goodness knows when my Bard's Gold will show up. The tracking is all but useless now. I receive "shipping confirmation" emails, but there's no movement with the tracking numbers for weeks.

[Bojay1997]

At least Starbucks is open for more than 10 minutes and doesn't threaten us with having to buy on ebay.

Nintendo rarely budges on MSRP either but why do they print Mario games for years after release? I mean, surely if you want a Mario game, you're going to buy it in the first 10 minutes?
(yes, I know and I'm still mad about some of the LE BS they've done. But at least they have sense to not make it their ONLY business model.)

Maybe Atlus is a better comparison? I do remember they themselves had joked about their small production runs on some games back in like the GBA era. But it seems like they've done better about reprinting in-demand games, like SMT, since then. I do remember them saying some stuff was made to sell in bigger numbers.
I've assumed Working Designs, one of the most niche publishers, balance between RPGs and action games (which were probably more profitable, since they had less localization needed) I assume was to maintain some sustainability. I mean RPGs were limited by virtue of that in the '90s due to that prior to the close release of FF7 and Pokemon, few people really wanted them.
If you are running a business that has some concern about gaming, and wants people to actually play your games, and not just collectors that will buy everything when they're told to (like waving a doggie treat to a dog), you have to at least attempt to make your product available to a wider audience.
If what you have is a product manufactured to be a collectible, then yes, LRG is the way to go.

Starbucks plays plenty of games with limited edition products. That unicorn drink they had a few months back was sold out almost instantly at many locations.

Physical niche games are not designed to attract a wide audience in the first place. All of the games LRG sells are available to anyone to buy digitally, often at a steep discount. Nobody needs to buy a physical copy of these games if all you're interested in doing is playing them.

LRG also regularly does runs of 3,000 - 5,000 copies on each platform. While some games sell out quickly, others can last for days. Obviously, not everyone buys every release and I think it's pretty insulting that you are comparing collectors to dogs when the forum you are posting on was built for collectors by collectors. In any event, there are companies that appear to be doing fine using the retail model and that's great for them. LRG has chosen not to do that and as a result, they seem to have been able to release a very high volume of games in a really short amount of time while attracting some of the more interesting indie game developers. Collectors and gamers have lots of choices now and LRG is just one of many that some of us are happy to purchase from. If you want niche games that retail niche publishers wouldn't or couldn't release, LRG is the way to go.

[Aussie2B]

Oceanhorn (PS4/Vita) and the standard edition of Plague Road (PS4/Vita) are up for sale today. All that's left of the first batch right now is PS4 copies of Plague Road, so check back at 6pm Eastern if you missed the others.

I grabbed the Vita copies myself, and my Bard's Gold finally showed up yesterday. I gotta say, this transition to trading cards is really confusing me. Are they supposed to replace the stickers or the postcards? Because I received a sticker and trading card with the Vita version of DariusBurst (no postcard), but with Bard's Gold, I received a postcard and a trading card (no sticker). And now I'm wondering if they left something out with one of these orders.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I don't think I'll be buying Plague Road. I haven't played it, but it doesn't really look to be something I'd enjoy.

I did buy both versions of Oceanhorn though. I'll probably play it on Vita and leave the PS4 version sealed. It looks rather good and I'm always looking for good Vita games.

[kupomogli]

Oceanhorn (PS4/Vita) and the standard edition of Plague Road (PS4/Vita) are up for sale today. All that's left of the first batch right now is PS4 copies of Plague Road, so check back at 6pm Eastern if you missed the others.

I grabbed the Vita copies myself, and my Bard's Gold finally showed up yesterday. I gotta say, this transition to trading cards is really confusing me. Are they supposed to replace the stickers or the postcards? Because I received a sticker and trading card with the Vita version of DariusBurst (no postcard), but with Bard's Gold, I received a postcard and a trading card (no sticker). And now I'm wondering if they left something out with one of these orders.

From what I've heard they're keeping the stickers and post cards, adding trading cards for people to trade. I got a sticker, a post card, and a trading card for Furi. Haven't received any of the other items I've ordered, on LRG when I logged in today to order Oceanhorn(only got the PS4 version, I only order on the second batch and the Vita version sold out in one minute) they're listed as unfulfilled so they haven't even been sent to be shipped yet. I don't care too much as I know I'll be getting them, but it's a bit ridiculous going on almost a month and hasn't shipped yet.

[Aussie2B]

I remember hearing them say at some point that the trading cards were to act as a replacement, since the copycat publishers were copying that as well, and they said that they had already printed cards and/or stickers for some games, so there would be a span of time when people be receiving the new trading cards and the old freebies. I just can't remember if the trading cards are intended to replace the postcards, the stickers, or both, and I have no idea if it's normal for Vita DariusBurst to not include a postcard or Bard's Gold to not include a sticker.

The whole "Fulfilled/Unfulfilled" thing on the site doesn't seem to be reliable anymore. When I logged in today to order, it still listed my Bard's Gold order as unfulfilled, despite that I received it yesterday.

[Bojay1997]

I remember hearing them say at some point that the trading cards were to act as a replacement, since the copycat publishers were copying that as well, and they said that they had already printed cards and/or stickers for some games, so there would be a span of time when people be receiving the new trading cards and the old freebies. I just can't remember if the trading cards are intended to replace the postcards, the stickers, or both, and I have no idea if it's normal for Vita DariusBurst to not include a postcard or Bard's Gold to not include a sticker.

The whole "Fulfilled/Unfulfilled" thing on the site doesn't seem to be reliable anymore. When I logged in today to order, it still listed my Bard's Gold order as unfulfilled, despite that I received it yesterday.

Yes, they mentioned there is a new glitch in their system that isn't properly updating the fulfilled/unfulfilled information. Apparently the shipping manager is tasked with fixing it asap.

[megasdkirby]

Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?

[kupomogli]

Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?

I'd like to know this as well. I can't find anything.

Absolver is offline though if you're interested.



Can Absolver be played offline? Can players choose to explore the world alone if they want?

Absolver can be played offline, for the players who are mostly interested in discovering the game world and learning about the story. However, the core experience is really based on multiplayer, whether it's the combat or the social components, so we recommend playing online!

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/02/interview_trading_blows_with_upcoming_ps4_fighter_ absolver

Hearsay only, but on Twitter the devs or SRG stated it was completely playable offline as well.

[Bojay1997]

Question about Lawbreakers...is it online play only? No offline gameplay?

It's online only unfortunately.

[megasdkirby]

It's online only unfortunately.

Thanks for letting me know.

This will indeed be the first LRG game I will not get. If only it had single player mode... :(

Almost lost out on Oceanhorn too...

[Aussie2B]

That's why they ended up backing out of having it as part of the numbered collection. Now even the PS4 version is unnumbered, just like the PC version. They got too much backlash over how the physical medium isn't really preserving the game in this case.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

There have been plenty of LRG releases I'm not interested in and I'm sure there will be plenty more. LRG does release stuff that I'm very thankful to have physically, but I don't need all of it.

[Aussie2B]

Two PS4 LEs are up for sale today: Wonder Boy and LawBreakers, plus standard versions of each for those who don't want the extra goodies. The first batch of Wonder Boy sold out in the blink of an eye, but plenty of LawBreakers is still available for the time being.

I grabbed a Wonder Boy LE, and with that, I'm done buying LRG PS4 releases until if and when they get something else belonging to a favorite series of mine (that isn't available physically on Vita or elsewhere).

[mailman187666]

For some reason, I have NEVER lucked out as far as buying something online that sells out within seconds. That being said, I missed out on the Wonder Boy LE. I was able to quickly grab a standard copy, so I am happy about that. I wanted the game mostly to open and play, as I don't buy LRG games with the intent of making money.

[Koa Zo]

For some reason, I have NEVER lucked out as far as buying something online that sells out within seconds. That being said, I missed out on the Wonder Boy LE. I was able to quickly grab a standard copy, so I am happy about that. I wanted the game mostly to open and play, as I don't buy LRG games with the intent of making money.
Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.

[mailman187666]

Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.

I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.

[lendelin]

Yeah this was the first one I wanted and missed. I had to be away from the computer for a minute came back and missed it.

Don't say this too loud. According to the LR-fanbase it is the easiest thing in the world to buy their games; wherever you are in the world it just takes two minutes on your smartphone unless you live under a rock or you are imprisoned, according to them. And don't forget: There is a second batch at 6pm available, you have another one to two minutes to buy Wonderboy. Afterwards? Don't worry, this game will be available on ebay for around (my guess) $80 to $100.

You have to understand the owners of Limited Run Games. They don't like to do it this way. They have to do it otherwise they would "endanger their livelihood." (O-tone Limited Run Games) If other companies (like Badland Games, 505 Games, Maximum Games or Soedesco) would have published the game, you could have just bought the game on Amazon or someplace else whenever it is convenient for you for months.

The two slick owners of LR are just collectors and gamers like you and me, they have to hype in interviews their games as future rarities, slap limited production numbers on them, limit the sales window, factor in ebay scalping, and then explicitly use ebay scalping to push for sales of their products. This is great for gamers and collectors! Why? It isn't about the money, it is all about preserving digital games on physical discs. So we all have to sacrifice something.

[lendelin]

I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.

Professional ebay scalpers find a way. The entire salesmodel is centerd about rarity hype and ebay scalping.

As of last week, Jotun (a game which is even not yet shipped according to complaints) sold on ebay already 17 times for an average price of $62,53. This is 150% over retail price. Limited Run games are a paradise for ebay scalpers.

Ebay scalping is bad enough, but Limited Run is an active part of it. From the start when the company was founded, Limited Run itself hyped the rarity of their releases ("the rare PS4 games of the future") AND factored in ebay scalping to sell their stock; and now they even use ebay scalping as a threat to sell their games.

How this salesmodel is a service to us gamers and collectors is still a mystery to me. Other companies which sell digital games on disc do very well, as a matter of fact it is a growing niche market in the last two to three years. The Limited Run-way is the good old money-grabbing greed, it isn't the altruistic way of preserving digital games on discs for posterity.

[Aussie2B]

I started my order process the second it went on sale and got put into one of those online "waiting lines". I don't know how people do it.

My tips are to log into your LRG account in advance (with a shipping address already tied to the account), pay with PayPal, and log into PayPal in advance too. The checkout process is then very smooth and quick. Maybe I've been lucky so far and may run into trouble eventually, but I've paid like this every time without issue (sometimes I don't even bother to log into PayPal in advance), and I've successfully ordered most of their games for at least one platform.

Second batch usually lasts longer than the first, but not always. Worst case scenario, if you want to buy a LRG release on the secondhand market, definitely don't buy immediately after LRG sold them. For most LRG releases, that's when resale prices are at their highest, and it's essentially a preorder since you'd have to wait for the seller to receive their copy. Once everybody who bought from LRG has copies in hand, more copies are put on the market and prices usually settle down. For example the DariusBurst LE, which was another that sold out lightning fast, can now be easily bought for somewhere in the range of even less than through LRG to $25 above the LRG price. After paying for eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc., these resellers are barely making any profit at all (not that they deserve to; just stating the facts for what they are).

I just really wish LRG, or the developers they're working with, would get the idea that print run sizes need to be bumped up. It's great to see many titles last for a whole weekend, but the ones that sell out in minutes still occur too frequently. When both Octodad and Thomas Was Alone moved 8000 total copies each without a problem, I don't think it's rocket science to conclude that, hey, maybe a game with the pedigree of Wonder Boy needs more than that in total. It's especially bad in this case because it's not like DotEmu is new to LRG. They shouldn't be nervous and overly cautious at this point. At the very least, I hope they take this as a lesson for when they finalize the Ys Origin print run sizes.

[YoshiM]

Wooo! Lendelin is runnin' hot. Heh heh heh.

While I don't really collect anymore, just looking at the whole situation reminds me of the old-time hucksters standing on their soapbox to sell their snake oil or "rare items procured from deep within the Orient." It nips at that greed factor of that triggers the "gotta have it" mentality we are seeing a lot more these days. The fear of not getting the item at a good price fuels that desire. It's their mission:

"At Limited Run Games our releases truly are limited. Once a game sells out, it will never be available from us again! We believe that as collectors and consumers you should be able to trust when we say our games are limited. They are!"

However, this comes across as a double standard with the following, taken from the site's own "about" page, below the quote I pasted:

"Our goal is to serve gamers and collectors by bringing physicality back to games. Please support us in this goal and try to collect the entire Limited Run Collection!"

So how is this forced limitation serving gamers? If it gets gobbled up in minutes with some of those copies being flipped to eBay, all that serves are the "entrepeneurs".

I'm not sure how transparent LRG is in regards as to why the releases are so limited. Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run? If it's the former, then I can see the hype train as yes, these games truly will be limited. No BS. If the latter, it just smacks of some predatory salesmanship to line some pockets and create artificial scarcity all around.

If they have a "collector's" and "standard" version, why not make the collector's a true limited run? The extra cost of the added bonusrs add up and historically would be more acceptable as limited. Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.

[Aussie2B]

So how is this forced limitation serving gamers?

Depends on who you ask. I think we've all seen how petty some game collectors can be. I can't count the number of times I've seen someone get angry when a rare and/or valuable game they own gets reprinted and is suddenly less rare and valuable, especially if they paid the inflated price to get their copy. I've been seeing that since the days of, say, Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears getting reprints. So for those who strongly care about the rarity factor, the limits put them at ease.

For a more roundabout way that it serves gamers, most of these are games with pretty low demand. The rarity factor draws collectors who wouldn't buy otherwise, allowing for bigger runs to sell through, allowing for the runs to be profitable enough to exist in the first place.


Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run?

A little of both. LRG has definitely shown to be excessively cautious as times, afraid of sitting on unsold stock. If a developer wanted a huge run that LRG had no confidence in selling through, I'm sure they'd never agree to it, partially because LRG shoulders the majority of the risk. Developers get 70% of the profits, and LRG pays them upfront. Then LRG has to sell through their stock to earn that money back plus their 30%. But it's the developer who makes the final call on print run size. I'm sure LRG makes recommendations, especially to those new to LRG, and LRG has convinced some developers to increase the print run sizes a little bit over what they originally requested, when LRG felt they were underestimating demand. Unfortunately, a widespread misconception is that LRG fully calls the shots on print run sizes.


Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.

It'd be nice, but unfortunately, that historically hasn't worked well for games like these. What you propose is exactly what Gaijinworks has done multiple times over, and they've barely hit their minimums or failed to. Minimums that are often lower than LRG print runs. In the case of Class of Heroes 2G, which failed to meet their minimum, they still ultimately produced physical copies, but only because they increased the price point. And when all is said and done with games sold in that manner, you have fewer copies in existence than LRG runs and higher prices on the secondhand market as a result. We also have Fangamer selling in that manner (though without the minimums), but they'll only touch the biggest of the big of indies (Shovel Knight, Undertale, etc.), which still end up selling less than many LRG releases. So it boils down to: we can get more games released physically with a less-than-ideal model, or we can get a lot fewer games released physically under more convenient models. Everybody is entitled to whichever they prefer, but me, I'll always be in favor of more games getting physical releases and those physical releases getting as many copies produced as possible, even if it takes a seemingly counterintuitive system to make that happen.

[lendelin]

My tips are to log into your LRG account in advance (with a shipping address already tied to the account), pay with PayPal, and log into PayPal in advance too. The checkout process is then very smooth and quick. Maybe I've been lucky so far and may run into trouble eventually, but I've paid like this every time without issue (sometimes I don't even bother to log into PayPal in advance), and I've successfully ordered most of their games for at least one platform.

Second batch usually lasts longer than the first, but not always. Worst case scenario, if you want to buy a LRG release on the secondhand market, definitely don't buy immediately after LRG sold them. For most LRG releases, that's when resale prices are at their highest, and it's essentially a preorder since you'd have to wait for the seller to receive their copy. Once everybody who bought from LRG has copies in hand, more copies are put on the market and prices usually settle down. For example the DariusBurst LE, which was another that sold out lightning fast, can now be easily bought for somewhere in the range of even less than through LRG to $25 above the LRG price. After paying for eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc., these resellers are barely making any profit at all (not that they deserve to; just stating the facts for what they are).

I just really wish LRG, or the developers they're working with, would get the idea that print run sizes need to be bumped up. It's great to see many titles last for a whole weekend, but the ones that sell out in minutes still occur too frequently. When both Octodad and Thomas Was Alone moved 8000 total copies each without a problem, I don't think it's rocket science to conclude that, hey, maybe a game with the pedigree of Wonder Boy needs more than that in total. It's especially bad in this case because it's not like DotEmu is new to LRG. They shouldn't be nervous and overly cautious at this point. At the very least, I hope they take this as a lesson for when they finalize the Ys Origin print run sizes.

Dariusburst LE cannot be had for less than original retail price (=$100). All the completed ebay auctions were way over $100, on average $161,28. You are right that prices come down over time as a general rule, it doesn't sell for $180 anymore, but buyers still have to pay realistically $130 to $140 today. This is a 30% to 40% over retail, not good for consumers. Minimum was $125, Maximum $199 from May 6th.

But there is one important fact when looking at the LR prices for Dariusburst on ebay. The game was also sold by PlayAsia for the Vita, standard and LE for the PS4! Therefore it is an exception. Gamers had a choice and didn't depend on LR. I bought the standard game from PlayAsia even a bit cheaper than from LR, and later I bought it (the first and only one) from LR.

BTW, the standard Dariusburst for the PS4 is $74,5 on average, one sold still for $85 today. (original retail: $60) Again, the competition by PlayAsia has to be considered, instead of paying $75 for the LR-game you can get it for $53 from PlayAsia. Instead of paying $160 for the LR-game LE, PlayAsia sells it for $110. Strange are the prices for the Vita game. I don't know the original price for the LR-game (was it $40 or $50?), but it is certainly a disappointment for ebay scalpers: On average $45,8. Strangely enough, PlayAsia sells the Vita game more expensive for $70. (Nope, just one bird doesn't make an entire summer)

High in demand games might not go down drastically in price. Gamers still wait for it for the Shantae games. Neurovoider and Plague Road certainly, but I'd be surprised if Jotun, Oceanhorn and Wonderboy will see a significant price reduction within a year, certainly not even close to the original retail price.

Did you ever ask yourself WHY Limited Run doesn't increase the production numbers after experiencing quick and expected sell-outs for years now like today for Wonderboy? It would be against their entire salesmodel which is based on uncertainty to get the games. It doesn't work if the supply meets the demand. The announced (!) limited production numbers re-enforce the uncertainty of getting the games and this way inflate the demand for them. If they had announced 10,000 or even 15,000 copies of Wonderboy, they wouldn't have even sold for days 5000 copies, not to mention within five minutes.

The salesmodel works only with touted restricted production numbers which create the uncertainty of gamers and ebay-sellers that the games sell very fast and you might be too late if you don't act fast. This way they produce temporarily an inflated demand and create a guarantee that their entire production run sells out. The underlying sentence is 'grab 'em now before it is too late.' This drives the sales. The 3000 or 5000 copies of Oceanhorn without (!!) this big announcement would have lasted for months. For Wonderboy with the long-lasting prestigious game heritage in all likelihood for days, certainly not two minutes.

This is exactly why I dislike this salesmodel: It deflates the supply and inflates the demand. Risk-minimizing for a company indeed at the cost of consumers.

[lendelin]

Wooo! Lendelin is runnin' hot. Heh heh heh.

While I don't really collect anymore, just looking at the whole situation reminds me of the old-time hucksters standing on their soapbox to sell their snake oil or "rare items procured from deep within the Orient." It nips at that greed factor of that triggers the "gotta have it" mentality we are seeing a lot more these days. The fear of not getting the item at a good price fuels that desire. It's their mission:

"At Limited Run Games our releases truly are limited. Once a game sells out, it will never be available from us again! We believe that as collectors and consumers you should be able to trust when we say our games are limited. They are!"

However, this comes across as a double standard with the following, taken from the site's own "about" page, below the quote I pasted:

"Our goal is to serve gamers and collectors by bringing physicality back to games. Please support us in this goal and try to collect the entire Limited Run Collection!"

So how is this forced limitation serving gamers? If it gets gobbled up in minutes with some of those copies being flipped to eBay, all that serves are the "entrepeneurs".

I'm not sure how transparent LRG is in regards as to why the releases are so limited. Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run? If it's the former, then I can see the hype train as yes, these games truly will be limited. No BS. If the latter, it just smacks of some predatory salesmanship to line some pockets and create artificial scarcity all around.

If they have a "collector's" and "standard" version, why not make the collector's a true limited run? The extra cost of the added bonusrs add up and historically would be more acceptable as limited. Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.

Hi Yoshi, old friend!! :) Yep, when I think of Limited Run, I'm running hot indeed. :)

Nah, what really bothers me is the hyppocrisy of these two slick owners. I read about 5 interviews with them, they know exactly what they are doing, and then they state always that it is only about preserving digital games on physical disc. They act like museum directors. When asked about their salesmodel (which happened only once with critical journalists and youtubers nowadays) they immediately stress it is about preserving digital games and that they still have their Ducktales.

It irks me that these guys build up such a great rep while other companies do great jobs in producing digital games on physical disc and sell it in a honest and decent way.

[Bojay1997]

Dariusburst LE cannot be had for less than original retail price (=$100). All the completed ebay auctions were way over $100, on average $161,28. You are right that prices come down over time as a general rule, it doesn't sell for $180 anymore, but buyers still have to pay realistically $130 to $140 today. This is a 30% to 40% over retail, not good for consumers. Minimum was $125, Maximum $199 from May 6th.

But there is one important fact when looking at the LR prices for Dariusburst on ebay. The game was also sold by PlayAsia for the Vita, standard and LE for the PS4! Therefore it is an exception. Gamers had a choice and didn't depend on LR. I bought the standard game from PlayAsia even a bit cheaper than from LR, and later I bought it (the first and only one) from LR.

BTW, the standard Dariusburst for the PS4 is $74,5 on average, one sold still for $85 today. (original retail: $60) Again, the competition by PlayAsia has to be considered, instead of paying $75 for the LR-game you can get it for $53 from PlayAsia. Instead of paying $160 for the LR-game LE, PlayAsia sells it for $110. Strange are the prices for the Vita game. I don't know the original price for the LR-game (was it $40 or $50?), but it is certainly a disappointment for ebay scalpers: On average $45,8. Strangely enough, PlayAsia sells the Vita game more expensive for $70. (Nope, just one bird doesn't make an entire summer)

High in demand games might not go down drastically in price. Gamers still wait for it for the Shantae games. Neurovoider and Plague Road certainly, but I'd be surprised if Jotun, Oceanhorn and Wonderboy will see a significant price reduction within a year, certainly not even close to the original retail price.

Did you ever ask yourself WHY Limited Run doesn't increase the production numbers after experiencing quick and expected sell-outs for years now like today for Wonderboy? It would be against their entire salesmodel which is based on uncertainty. It doesn't work if the supply meets the demand. The announced (!) limited production numbers re-enforce the uncertainty and this way inflate the demand. If they had announced 10,000 or even 15,000 copies of Wonderboy, they wouldn't have even sold for days 5000 copies, not to mention within five minutes.

The salesmodel works only with touted restricted production numbers which create the uncertainty of gamers and ebay-sellers that the games sell very fast. This way they produce an inflated demand and create a guarantee that their entire production run sells out. The underlying sentence is 'grab 'em now before it is too late.' This drives the sales. The 3000 or 5000 copies of Oceanhorn without (!!) this big announcement would have lasted for months. For Wonderboy with the long-lasting prestigious game heritage in all likelihood for days, certainly not two minutes.

This is exactly why I dislike this salesmodel: It deflates the supply and inflates the demand. Risk-minimizing for a company indeed at the cost of consumers.

I thought you said you were done with responding? Looks like you found the time to post three more troll posts with the same bitching and whining today. Can you imagine how successful you would be if you took all that time and energy and put it into something that actually mattered? We get it, you dislike the LRG sales model. Apparently you have now admitted that you are a giant hypocrite and did in fact buy Darius from both Play Asia and LRG. How about just giving it a rest like you said you were going to do?

[Aussie2B]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limited-Edition-Brand-New-Dariusburst-CS-PS4-Rare-Only-2000-Copies-Made-/182634829132

There's a brand new copy of the LRG DariusBurst LE that sold for $102.50 shipped about a month ago. Not a BIN either, just where regular bidding brought the price to. I didn't do anything unusual to find it. I just did a search for "dariusburst ps4" and clicked to look at completed auctions.

I paid $99.99 + $5.50 shipping for mine directly from LRG, so the auction went for below the LRG price. The seller is even more in the red after eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.

Though I don't wish it on those who are still trying to buy older LRG releases, I almost kind of wish it was this so-called "scalper's paradise" just for my own benefit. I'm sitting on a DariusBurst LE that I don't even want. I bought it because it looked like a US physical release for Vita wasn't going to happen, so I settled for a PS4 version. But we all know what happened shortly thereafter. But right now, I can't bring myself to waste my time selling and shipping the LE off just to lose money, break even, or make maybe a $10 profit tops. It's just not worth it. I would rather have not bought it in the first place.

[lendelin]

I thought you said you were done with responding? Looks like you found the time to post three more troll posts with the same bitching and whining today. Can you imagine how successful you would be if you took all that time and energy and put it into something that actually mattered? We get it, you dislike the LRG sales model. Apparently you have now admitted that you are a giant hypocrite and did in fact buy Darius from both Play Asia and LRG. How about just giving it a rest like you said you were going to do?

Big difference: I said I won't respond to YOU. You're not everyone. Reason: Read your above post full of nonsense and insults.

Again, learn to read: I never hid the fact that I bought Dariusburst from LR, I mentioned that in this thread already weeks ago. I said even (maybe not in this thread) that Dariusburst might be the first LR game I'll buy shortly after it was announced.

Do you realize that your posts sound pretty nutty at times? :)

[lendelin]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Limited-Edition-Brand-New-Dariusburst-CS-PS4-Rare-Only-2000-Copies-Made-/182634829132

There's a brand new copy of the LRG DariusBurst LE that sold for $102.50 shipped about a month ago. Not a BIN either, just where regular bidding brought the price to. I didn't do anything unusual to find it. I just did a search for "dariusburst ps4" and clicked to look at completed auctions.

I paid $99.99 + $5.50 shipping for mine directly from LRG, so the auction went for below the LRG price. The seller is even more in the red after eBay, PayPal, and shipping fees.

Though I don't wish it on those who are still trying to buy older LRG releases, I almost kind of wish it was this so-called "scalper's paradise" just for my own benefit. I'm sitting on a DariusBurst LE that I don't even want. I bought it because it looked like a US physical release for Vita wasn't going to happen, so I settled for a PS4 version. But we all know what happened shortly thereafter. But right now, I can't bring myself to waste my time selling and shipping the LE off just to lose money, break even, or make maybe a $10 profit tops. It's just not worth it. I would rather have not bought it in the first place.

Sorry, this auction didn't come up when I looked at them. I searched for 'Dariusburst Limited Run' so I get the PS4 games and Vita games as well. So this one I didn't consider. Sorry about that. Maybe because this auction says unusually first 'Limited Edition, Brand New' and only then Dariusburst?? Even with this price the average drops to maybe $152 from $160. (this average price should be, however, disregarded because the more recent prices are about $135)

I just looked them up again, and the usual prices in July are from $125 to $140, that's why I wrote that realistically the game goes for around $130 to $140. The auction you refer to is a big exception, however, I was wrong when I wrote that no auction came close to retail price. One indeed did.

Still very profitable for ebay sellers despite the exception that LR had competition from PlayAsia.

[Bojay1997]

Big difference: I said I won't respond to YOU. You're not everyone. Reason: Read your above post full of nonsense and insults.

Again, learn to read: I never hid the fact that I bought Dariusburst from LR, I mentioned that in this thread already weeks ago. I said even (maybe not in this thread) that Dariusburst might be the first LR game I'll buy shortly after it was announced.

Do you realize that your posts sound pretty nutty at times? :)

Right, my posts are the nutty ones. I mean can you even comprehend how crazy it must seem to the rest of us that you are spending time on Ebay and on LRG and all over the place gathering data just so you can make one more worthless post on a forum that is lucky if it has a few dozen active users nowadays? Your whole argument is nonsensical. It's like you can't comprehend that this isn't 1994 and that there are now literally millions of people collecting all sorts of things and that part of all that collecting has been the unfortunate emergence of scalpers that seek out limited items and want to take their cut for doing the most minimal of work. I mean literally nothing you are saying is relevant or useful.

You seem to be proposing that LRG and all their competitors must switch over to a risky retail model where stock stays around long enough to see price cuts so you can then go in and buy it at a discount. How is that helpful to the developers or LRG or the community in general if you suck away the primary financial incentive for these companies to even do what they're doing? Soedesco and the other retail publishers certainly don't want that model as all that inventory depreciates and eventually ends up costing them money as it gets stored for years or returned by retailers. If too many people pursue your approach of waiting for even cheap niche titles to fall in price, the market will simply dry up and disappear much like it did for cheap portable cartridge games on the 3ds and elsewhere.

In the end, LRG's business model is what it is. Nothing you have said or will say here, no matter how much Ebay data or hyperbole you throw in is going to change the fact that if you want these particular releases in physical form, at this point in time, LRG is the only source for them. That might not always be the case and maybe Play Asia and others will continue to get Asian copies of games previously released by LRG, but sitting here and ranting about how terrible LRG is will do nothing to make that happen or to change their model or anyone else's.

[Koa Zo]

Wow, the 6 o'clock batch sold out in less than 2 minutes. I got one this time at least.

[kupomogli]

I got mine and then as soon as I refreshed it was gone. The bundle that includes LawBreakers is still up, but most collector's don't want LawBreakers because the online only bs. Half of WonderBoy is bundled to force a sale to people who don't even want the game but really want WonderBoy. I mean only 5000 for one of the most anticipated releases and then you hold most of them hostage behind a bundle? I mean wtf.

The other thing is that all the listings are going in and out of stock. The WonderBoy CE, the bundled CEs. From what it says at the site, Shopify changed so that they don't hold the game in queue, as soon as the transaction goes through it's gone, not whether it's in your cart anymore or not so why does it keep going in and out of stock? I already know a lot of people wanted this one and a lot are going to be pissed regardless, but this musical chairs bs is a bit ridiculous.

*edit*

Now they're all gone except for the standard and CE versions of LawBreakers. Imagine that, the version of LawBreakers that sells out first is the one that includes a game that people actually want. Checking inventory, LawBreakers CE is still at 87% and SE is at 36% and you've been able to purchase two. What a scummy move doing what they did in order to move stock.

[megasdkirby]

I feel Lawbreakers will be a huge flop for them. The only reason it so let copies was because it was bundled with Wonderboy. Right now, the CE edition is still widely available at around 78%. While it will eventually sell, I hope this teaches them a lesson or at least be weary regarding certain titles. Hopefully, it will cause them to ease up a bit.

I'm thankful I could get t he CE version of Wonderboy early today at work. I wonder what the nightmare of Night Trap will be.

Also, I noticed that the countdown clock on the main page was ahead by a few minutes. This could have caused issues.

[Aussie2B]

For anyone who may have still missed Wonder Boy, LRG is going to relist some tomorrow (a mix of standard and LEs) after they sift through orders and cancel purchases that broke the limit. No idea what time, though.

I'm kinda fearful that whatever lesson LRG takes from LawBreakers will result in "print fewer copies of other games", rather than understanding the nuance of how an online-only title and an unnumbered release can affect sales. I mean, still to this day, I don't think they properly understand the backlash to the pricing of DariusBurst on Vita, thinking all it is is "people don't want to pay $50 for a Vita game, period". And they totally screwed the pooch with the bundle. If it had been available at the same time as the standalone copies, fine, it saves some time for people who wanted both, but by the time the bundles went up, standalone Wonder Boy was gone. Creating a listing that lasts a little longer at the cost of forcing people to buy a game they don't want to get the one they do is not a smart nor appreciated trade-off. The bundles lasted longer precisely BECAUSE people were hesitant to pay for LawBreakers when all they really wanted was Wonder Boy, and all it accomplished was gaining people's ire, adding insult to injury when people were already frustrated over how quickly Wonder Boy sold out. Bottom line, PRINT MORE COPIES. If the print run sizes for all these various releases aren't already burned into their brains, I think LRG and all the developers working with them would be well-served looking at a single compiled list like I have in the opening post and reflect upon the print run sizes of past titles, the popularity of those titles, and how quickly they sold out. Because I really can't comprehend how they came up with 8000 total for Wonder Boy given its popularity relative to past releases and the print run sizes of those past releases.

[Greg2600]

This entire concept continues to make zero sense to me. Glad I'm completely out of the loop and stress free.

[lendelin]

Wooo! Lendelin is runnin' hot. Heh heh heh.

While I don't really collect anymore, just looking at the whole situation reminds me of the old-time hucksters standing on their soapbox to sell their snake oil or "rare items procured from deep within the Orient." It nips at that greed factor of that triggers the "gotta have it" mentality we are seeing a lot more these days. The fear of not getting the item at a good price fuels that desire. It's their mission:

"At Limited Run Games our releases truly are limited. Once a game sells out, it will never be available from us again! We believe that as collectors and consumers you should be able to trust when we say our games are limited. They are!"

However, this comes across as a double standard with the following, taken from the site's own "about" page, below the quote I pasted:

"Our goal is to serve gamers and collectors by bringing physicality back to games. Please support us in this goal and try to collect the entire Limited Run Collection!"

So how is this forced limitation serving gamers? If it gets gobbled up in minutes with some of those copies being flipped to eBay, all that serves are the "entrepeneurs".

I'm not sure how transparent LRG is in regards as to why the releases are so limited. Is it because they are only licensed to make a very small run or are they choosing to make a small run? If it's the former, then I can see the hype train as yes, these games truly will be limited. No BS. If the latter, it just smacks of some predatory salesmanship to line some pockets and create artificial scarcity all around.

If they have a "collector's" and "standard" version, why not make the collector's a true limited run? The extra cost of the added bonusrs add up and historically would be more acceptable as limited. Then have preorders for the standards with an amount limit, so if a particular run didn't get enough people to order, that run doesn't get made. Will people be put out with that, sure. The difference is there is a better opportunity to get one, they know that a certain amount needs to be ordered for it to be worthwhile for LRG to make the games and if it doesn't happen, then blame those that didn't buy. A bit more goodwill would be had methinks.

You are not collecting anymore? Just not in the mood anymore or what happened? Btw, I am also way beyond that I want as many games as possible, but I still spend a lot of money for games.

You are absolutely right about Limited Run in every aspect. They justify their salesmodel with the dumbest of reasoning. When I heard by some justifications of the salesmodel I thought it was the nonsensical defense-wall of a fanbase sounding like the PR-department of LR; but then I just recently learned that it WAS actually the babble of LR just repeated by a fanbase.

Here is an example of the statements of Limited Run itself in their twitter account about the release of Nighttrap. Some had the audacity to question their salesmodel:

https://twitter.com/limitedrungames/status/856933977805946881?lang=de

Why the limited production numbers?
Answer LR: "Simply put, if a game is overprinted it will sink us or our partners due to the extremely high cost of printing physical inventory." and "we will print an amount that will safely sell without risking our livelihood."

This was repeated again and again in this thread. In short, they have to do it otherwise they would face bankruptcy, and this way they ensure that we get physical games on disc. The same reasoning was used to answer your Q.

Someone should just ask them how other small publishers with normal distribution models which print digital games by small developers on physical disc manage to survive? They are not only surviving, they are doing very well, publishing more and more games (over 200 in the last three years). They and Limited Run are in a growing niche market. It is not a struggle anymore against an overall powerful digital god; on the contrary, Soedesco, Badland Games, Maximum Games, THQ Nordic and many other companies prove that it is possible to sell these kind of games and make a profit. Still, the nonsensical PR-babble by LR is repeated again and again.

Why is that? Because LR convinced a lot of gamers that LIMITED RUN does not stand for limited production numbers but for 'preserving digital games on disc'. They ingeniously sold their salesmodel in a euphemistic way by putting the bad program (the limited run) in the name and associated it with something good; and it was accepted because gamers wanted desperately great digital games on disc. I was among them, but I never bought the part about the limited production numbers. Everyone including their fanbase and LR itself knew what will happen, what kind of a salesmodel this is: Rarity hype based on limited production associated and re-enforced by ebay scalping.

Creating artificial scarcity? Answer LR: "Are you aware that we don't lock up rights to games? The developers and publishers we've worked with have full rights to reprint more."

Nonsense. This is a niche market, once a indie-game is published, in particular with the artificial demand created by LR, it is over. It only happened in the case of one game, a game that was tailored to the Asian market and published by an Asian company. One game of the over sixty games published by LR got reprinted, that's not a coincidence. The fanbase will now respond that if not for LR we wouldn't get these games. Also nonsense. The game is over with one print for these kind of smaller games, not that other publsiher aren't interested in getting these games. I am also sure that Limited Run would not reprint Inside/Limbo and Axiom Verge after they lost the publishing rights (thank godness) to other companies, even if they could. The market won't accept a second print run.

To answer your Q about who sets the print run numbers? Don't listen to the PR-babble by the fanbase, they are repeating again Limited Run itself. LR stated again and again that the DEVELOPERS set the numbers. Are they kidding? The guys who don't take the risk about the final sales decide for LR the production numbers? LR takes the financial responsibility about sales and let someone else dictate to them how many they will print?

Ridiculous and completely nonsense. Another example to which extent a faithful fanbase can get bamboozled.

The bottom line is that a terrible salesmodel is defended by an adamant fanbase. Small openings of sales windows as a result of intended rarity hype and limited production numbers, artificially deflated supply and artificially inflated demand with the result of limited availability and terrible ebay prices are justified by nonsense and belittlements of the consequences. Ebay prices are not so bad (yes, they are); ebay prices will come down (not for high-in demand games); LR can't do anything about ebay scalping (yes they could, AND they intentionally used ebay scalping to sell their games); the 5 minute sales windows aren't a problem nowadays in the age of smartphones (yes, they are!); sometimes certain games are up for hours, sometimes even an entire day! (really? incredible!); other small publishers face bankruptcy or get government subsidies or are not profit-oriented (this was seriously said!); and my personal favorite: I should put my money were my mouth is and found my own publishing company in order to prove that my criticism is valid! :) Wonderful.

The nonsense runs high. But the following by Limited Run Games itself will be an evergreen of nonsense! How do they justify their limited print salesmodel? (it's in the twitter link above)

Limited Run: "Atari crashed the game industry by overprinting games. There isn't infinite demand for this stuff."

I leave it like that without a comment because it is just too stupid. I'm just glad that no-one on this site had the chuzpe to repeat this statement which borders idiocy. Can you imagine to compare the industry and economics of 1983 to the situation of the game industry today? If Limited Run would have printed 5000 more copies of Wonderboy and 2000 of them would have sold not immediately but in the next couple of months, in this case I'm not so sure it might have triggered in the long run another videogame crash. :) And if so, it would have happened some time ago, because lots of smaller publishers take the risk of overprinting, imagine that, Limited Run! :)

The last statement shows, however, how very safe the LR-guys feel with their fanbase, not even nonsensical stuff hurt their reputation and puts a dent in the adamant following fanbase.

[Bojay1997]

Ridiculous and completely nonsense. Another example to which extent a faithful fanbase can get bamboozled.



And you just can't let it go. You have now posted how many times today? Do you not have a job or anything else productive to do with your life other than to keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? Here's the thing, nobody that buys LRG games is under any delusion about what their model is or isn't. Nobody is being tricked or outsmarted or swindled. We all get it. Their model is the same as Mondo or Ubisoft Store or NIS or Square-Enix Store or Iam8Bit or any company that sells limited edition products and makes it clear that they won't be doing reprints and that once something is sold out, it's gone. They all move product by offering something people want and reinforcing the need to buy it now with the overt or subtle threat that once something is sold out, it's not coming back in stock. It's literally a basic and longstanding business model that applies to every collector's edition, limited edition or any other product that is produced for collectors in limited quantities whether its games, comics, statues, posters, vinyl box sets or whatever. You act as though seeking to preserve digital games on disc is somehow not compatible with limited editions or making a profit. In the real world, everything isn't always black and white. Sometimes, a business or a person can have many facets and motivations and competing interests and yet they can grow and thrive.

Everything that you are posting has been discussed repeatedly on the LRG forums, Twitter, Facebook and countless other forums including this one. LRG has been very open about their belief that games need to sell out immediately and that Ebay scalpers are part of their customer base. They also believe they don't have the working capital or logistical ability to get stuck with excess copies of a game if they overprint something. It literally doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, it's their company and a number of developers support their model and the public is very receptive to it. At the end of the day, you don't like their model and you think there are better models out there being pursued by other companies. Fine. It literally doesn't matter. You're one guy with too much time on his hands who feels that businesses owe him something and that he should have the right to buy games months or years after release at a discount and if it costs the business money or they can't afford to pay the developers or their employees on time as a result, it's not your problem. You're literally the crappy customer that no business would want or need. As such, your opinion carries no weight. You don't understand how business works, you don't care about the people whose lives may be impacted by your desire for a race to the bottom on pricing and your entire belief about an alternate model is based on anecdotal evidence from companies whose finances you have not one iota of information about and whose business model is keyed towards an entirely different market.

It's literally the height of arrogance and stupidity on your part to keep repeating the same myth that somehow if LRG didn't exist, all these other companies would rush in and release these ultra niche games. Honestly, LRG has kicked off a whole slew of new competition and ultimately, Soedesco and the others who entered the market prior to LRG will either compete and win or collapse as the market gets saturated with these releases. Frankly, consumers have plenty of choices and we should be celebrating that LRG is not only an option, but more importantly, not the only option in town.

[Aussie2B]

Glad I'm completely out of the loop and stress free.

For all the to do some people make of it, I can honestly say that buying from LRG has never once caused me the slightest bit of stress, and I own the majority of their catalog. Whether a game sells out in 3 minutes or 3 days, the process of buying it has been just the same for me. All that LRG brings me is the enjoyment of owning and playing physical copies of a varied assortment of games. I love collecting for Vita, and I'm at around 100 US releases now. Far more of my collection is from the likes of Atlus, Aksys, XSEED, NISA, IFI, PQube, etc., but the LRG releases on top of those are a great addition. Since I strongly prefer to buy games physically, I normally ignore most indies. All these physical releases are getting me to give them a shot and broaden my gaming horizons. I've already played through a number of LRG releases beginning to end, and I look forward to doing so with many more. I know some people only care about the collecting, even keeping them sealed, but I've opened up and popped into my Vita every LRG Vita release.

I know there are certain individuals who have stated themselves that they have never had any interest in handheld gaming. They know absolutely nothing about the state of the Western Vita market, and they entirely ignore the fact that LRG releases Vita games (which is even how they started, and Vita versions often sell out faster than the PS4 versions of the multiplatform releases). For them, they think nothing beyond "LRG releases indies and niche games on PS4, but there are other companies releasing indies and niche games on PS4 in ways that are more convenient for the customer, so why should LRG even exist?" They completely fail to understand or acknowledge that NO ONE is releasing the kinds of games and quantities of games for Vita that LRG is. As an avid Vita collector who keeps up with the news on every physical US release (which isn't hard; you can count the number each month on your fingers, and it's been that way for years), I can tell anyone the full extent of similar games being published by others in recent years: Fangamer with a whopping two releases (Shovel Knight and Undertale) and Badland Games is finally getting their act together and supposedly releasing Axiom Verge and Velocity 2X this fall. That's it. NO ONE but LRG is stepping up to the plate for physically printing less popular indies on Vita (as I said in a prior post, it doesn't get much bigger than Shovel Knight and Undertale), and NO ONE but LRG is stepping up to the plate for physically printing Japanese games on Vita that slip through the cracks like Ray Gigant and DariusBurst. Again, as someone who drinks up Vita info like a sponge, I can say with absolute full confidence, based on the knowledge I have of the Vita market in the US, that virtually all of LRG's Vita releases would still be digital-only today had LRG never existed. At best, a few would/do have Asian English versions, which tend to be more costly to import than buying an LRG release if you're in the US. The industry sees the Vita as a flop and not particularly profitable in general, so all the more, the kinds of Vita games LRG has been releasing are regarded as unprofitable under any other sales model, thus they just don't exist under other sales models. It's a very different situation from the PS4, which is a huge success. I'm not going to tell anybody else if this all is worth having to show up on LRG's site at specific times and such to buy, but for me, getting physical US Vita releases of dozens of games that would otherwise be digital-only is absolutely worth it, especially when I don't even find the process of buying stressful or difficult to begin with.

[Koa Zo]

For all the to do some people make of it, I can honestly say that buying from LRG has never once caused me the slightest bit of stress,

Likewise. Yesterday was the first time I missed a release I wanted, and that was because I got pulled away from my computer at 10am. Thankfully I knew I needed to be distraction free for the scheduled 6pm release.

Can you imagine some of these people trying to deal with purchasing a GDEMU, where the availability window can be equally quick - just a few minutes, but you don't even know what time the release will be, just the day?

[Greg2600]

Listen, I think it's a great service, but their approach is nonsensical. Take preorders over a 2 week window or whatever. That's it. Then at least people have a fair shot at getting a copy, AND LRG are not left with overstock. I refuse to support their dumb ass concept that inevitably leads to annoyed fans and wealthy scalpers.

[Bojay1997]

Listen, I think it's a great service, but their approach is nonsensical. Take preorders over a 2 week window or whatever. That's it. Then at least people have a fair shot at getting a copy, AND LRG are not left with overstock. I refuse to support their dumb ass concept that inevitably leads to annoyed fans and wealthy scalpers.

All you need to do is to go back through this thread and you will understand all of the problems your suggested approach has. Have other companies done preorders? Yes. Have they been as simple and successful as you seem to believe they would be? Not even close. I'm still waiting for the latest Gaijinworks game that I paid for nine months ago. LRG is getting daily grief from people waiting for their Skullgirls preorders. Fangamer did unlimited preorders with Undertale, but if you preordered after the first couple of days, you got an estimated delivery date literally months after the initial batch. I guarantee they are going to get nasty e-mails if there is even a day of delay on the initial batch given that they have charged already.

[lendelin]

LR should sell games the normal way, truly providing a service for gamers and collectors, just a normal retail route like many other small publishers do which put the same kind of games on physical disc.

Pre-order would be a slightly better way than the TV-shopping-channel approach wth very small sales windows.

Play Asia does it with pre-orders and it worked very well. Blue Rider, Cursed Castilla EX and Ghost Blade HD sold very well and we got great games through pre-orders. Not everyone is like Gajinworks. :) Like always: don't make the exceptions the rule in order to spin reality euphemistically.

[Aussie2B]

I refuse to support their dumb ass concept that inevitably leads to annoyed fans and wealthy scalpers.

I respect that. Everybody should vote with their wallet, supporting what they like and not supporting what they don't. I'm just saying that I'm one repeated customer who has never felt stressed or annoyed with the buying process (I have been annoyed by some of their other decisions and actions, but I could say the same for literally every game publisher), and I've never had to line the pockets of scalpers to get the LRG games I want. So it's not an objectively bad shopping experience, and I don't think anybody should be scared or hesitant to buy if they are interested, assuming that they'll definitely be left feeling stressed out and frustrated.

[Bojay1997]

I respect that. Everybody should vote with their wallet, supporting what they like and not supporting what they don't. I'm just saying that I'm one repeated customer who has never felt stressed or annoyed with the buying process (I have been annoyed by some of their other decisions and actions, but I could say the same for literally every game publisher), and I've never had to line the pockets of scalpers to get the LRG games I want. So it's not an objectively bad shopping experience, and I don't think anybody should be scared or hesitant to buy if they are interested, assuming that they'll definitely be left feeling stressed out and frustrated.

Strongly agree on all counts.

[Bojay1997]

LR should sell games the normal way, truly providing a service for gamers and collectors, just a normal retail route like many other small publishers do which put the same kind of games on physical disc.

Pre-order would be a slightly better way than the TV-shopping-channel approach wth very small sales windows.

Play Asia does it with pre-orders and it worked very well. Blue Rider, Cursed Castilla EX and Ghost Blade HD sold very well and we got great games through pre-orders. Not everyone is like Gajinworks. :) Like always: don't make the exceptions the rule in order to spin reality euphemistically.

It's not their model and there are already plenty of companies that do exactly that. Not every business has to be run the way you think it should be run. Also, Play Asia wasn't a preorder at all. They had a quantity already printed and simply allowed people who signed up in advance to buy the game during a window (aka adding one more exclusionary step beyond LRG). The only reason Play Asia seemed easier is that there is far less demand for Asian region versions of games and frankly, some of Play Asia's games were nichey to a degree that a lot of gamers and collectors weren't interested. You also seem remarkably okay with their attempt to make a regular retail release in Aerea into a collector's edition by adding some crappy cards to the set and charging a premium. Not sure why your beloved Soedesco allowed them to do that.

[Koa Zo]

wealthy scalpers.

??? tools making $5-$20 on their handful if not singular extra copies? lol.

[Tron 2.0]

Wow, the 6 o'clock batch sold out in less than 2 minutes. I got one this time at least.
Same time i bought a copy of wonderboy.Missed out on buying it's first batch for 10:00 so i luck out buying a copy at 6:00.I was expecting the game to sell so quickly either.Still,typical LRG not taking into account for demand and hyping it's sale.I just went with the regular edition of wonderboy i don't need the CE one.

[Spartacus]

Play Asia was already selling Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap with a better cover art in my opinion, and at a lower price. That may have influenced LRG's decision as to how many they would print. The game is still available at Play Asia.

I'm grateful that Sony is willing to accept print runs small enough that entrepreneurs are willing to take the risk to print physical copies of games from smaller developers. In this supposedly digital age, it's real pleasure to see this happening.

I just wanted to thank Aussie2B and others who take the time to make the rest of us aware of what's available, so that we can make a timely decision.
Thanks!

[SparTonberry]

Fangamer only printing a couple games doesn't surprise me. They're not focused on game publishing so they can choose what they want.
(and I presume Undertale they were more easily able to make a deal with the author due to both of them kind of coming from the EarthBound fanbase. I thought UT was originally started as an EB hack before turning into its own game.)

Still, I'd rather preorder and wait for months on a restock to know the publisher had an interest in filling demand for their product, than one who doesn't care (but if you want to emphasize LRG as "collectors", then of course they shouldn't want to care about demand beyond what will give them immediate cash, too many people having their product is a BAD thing).

Ultimately I think it makes little difference if digital games are "preserved" if only about five people can play the damn things.

[Aussie2B]

Even if it's just a couple, I'm appreciative of what Fangamer is bringing to the Vita market. It's just a shame that, when preorders are totally open like that for games like these, people aren't as interested to buy. They assume it'll end up common or some such, and that results in an even smaller print run than what could've been sold through LRG. Thank goodness Fangamer at least manufactured a little more than what was ordered with Shovel Knight. They got 3000-some preorders but chose to manufacture 5000. Even then, though, you have a print run in the same ballpark as LRG's. Even lower than what Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath got, in fact. Given the reputation Shovel Knight has and all the acclaim, it's the perfect storm for creating a pricey game on the secondhand market in the years to come, probably more expensive than the average LRG Vita release. It was nice that Shovel Knight had a fairly wide order window at the time, but now that it's sold out on Fangamer and will likely never be reprinted, it's in the exact same boat as every sold out LRG release. I feel bad for those ordering the Undertale LE now, with the months long wait past the shipment of the first batch (which I luckily got in on; I'm glad I didn't drag my feet on ordering), but I'd like to take that as a sign that sales are going better than expected. I really hope Undertale gets more than 5000 copies printed for each platform.


I just wanted to thank Aussie2B and others who take the time to make the rest of us aware of what's available, so that we can make a timely decision.
Thanks!

You're welcome. :) I'm glad my list and updates have been useful.

[Bojay1997]

Fangamer only printing a couple games doesn't surprise me. They're not focused on game publishing so they can choose what they want.
(and I presume Undertale they were more easily able to make a deal with the author due to both of them kind of coming from the EarthBound fanbase. I thought UT was originally started as an EB hack before turning into its own game.)

Still, I'd rather preorder and wait for months on a restock to know the publisher had an interest in filling demand for their product, than one who doesn't care (but if you want to emphasize LRG as "collectors", then of course they shouldn't want to care about demand beyond what will give them immediate cash, too many people having their product is a BAD thing).

Ultimately I think it makes little difference if digital games are "preserved" if only about five people can play the damn things.

Again, these games can be bought digitally, so an unlimited number of people can "play the damn things". It's also not a matter of not caring, it's a matter of running a sustainable business that doesn't fold the second they hit a bump in the road on a release that not enough people preorder to make it viable (i.e. the situation Gaijinworks and Iam8Bit have both been in). Also, there are now 8,000 copies of Wonderboy that have been sold physically and thousands more through Play Asia. It's not exactly five copies in a world where these are niche titles that most consumers are happy to buy digitally if at all.

[kupomogli]

Bojay, not everyone buys digital. As much as I want to play a lot of games that are digital only, I'll wait until they get a physical release. The only time I'll play the games digitally is if they're $2.50 or less on PSN or Steam, or if they're free on PS+. PS+ is a great deal that offers me 72 games across PS3/PS4/Vita for $40 a year provided you wait for a sale, so each game is essentially less than $1, and I've played some great indie games I never would have tried otherwise. Furi and Hotline Miami are two examples that turned out to be some of the most enjoyable indie games I've ever played, the reason I hyped up and bought Furi from LRG and bought Hotline Miami the Collected Edition. Hotline Miami was so good that I purchased Hotline Miami 2 day one, something that hasn't happened before or since. I absolutely loved Zeboyd Games titles Breath of Death 7 and Cthulu Saves the World, but knowing Cosmic Star Heroine is getting a physical release, I've been patient and have waited for it(though I have been tempted on getting it this last sale where it was $7.50, and to support the dev I should, but I'll already be supporting them with a physical purchase.)

[Bojay1997]

Bojay, not everyone buys digital. As much as I want to play a lot of games that are digital only, I'll wait until they get a physical release. The only time I'll play the games digitally is if they're $2.50 or less on PSN or Steam, or if they're free on PS+. PS+ is a great deal that offers me 72 games across PS3/PS4/Vita for $40 a year provided you wait for a sale, so each game is essentially less than $1, and I've played some great indie games I never would have tried otherwise. Furi and Hotline Miami are two examples that turned out to be some of the most enjoyable indie games I've ever played, the reason I hyped up and bought Furi from LRG and bought Hotline Miami the Collected Edition. Hotline Miami was so good that I purchased Hotline Miami 2 day one, something that hasn't happened before or since. I absolutely loved Zeboyd Games titles Breath of Death 7 and Cthulu Saves the World, but knowing Cosmic Star Heroine is getting a physical release, I've been patient and have waited for it(though I have been tempted on getting it this last sale where it was $7.50, and to support the dev I should, but I'll already be supporting them with a physical purchase.)

Correct and many of those people make up LRG's customer base. At the same time, if you really just care about playing a game, digital is a perfectly viable option for many people. I was responding to the erroneous claim that LRG was somehow preventing people from playing these games when almost universally the games can be purchased far more cheaply digitally and there are no quantity limits on digital copies.

[megasdkirby]

Anyone been reading LRG's Facebook entries recently? Lots of customers aren't happy with the current model of theirs:


"Mark CA: I ordered my game from playasia. Fuck this shity copies limits. You do NOTHING for collectors or friends of physical media. Im finished with you guys."


"Timmy Adriaens: time to stop supporting this crap called limited run games"


"Michael Martignetti: Limits are fine. But that items can sell out while your completing your order is a bad practice. especially if you want to get both games to save on shiping. Its time to rethink your 'never reprint' approach. the demand is there and youre just catering to resellers instead of the fans."


"Joshua Rhodes: I won't jump on the hate bandwagon, but this method of first come, first serve isn't working too well for a lot of us. Let's use this knowledge and experience to improve the system. Maybe drop the limit to 1 per person? What we need is a pre-order option and a few more copies to go around. Limited Run could still be limited with a few thousand extra copies. How about giving those who have been loyal, long-time fans the option to pre-purchase, then allowing the standard 3-5k copies to be released like mad to the general public, as per usual. We need solutions, not arguments."


"Chris Caudill: I agree with another poster, make it ao orders are made after everybody who wants it pays. Gaijinworks does it that way. Forced scarcity sucks when you leave tons of people who genuinely want the game looking at a sold out screen when such a simple solution is available."

Their method has thrived so far, but looking at comments above, which increase after every release, it seems it may not be the way to go on the long run. I love the idea of limited quantities, but the pre-order option seems to be a great idea. First open pre-orders...once everyone who wants one gets their copies securely, then print out an additional 1,000 copies. Those WILL sell anyway. It's a win-win. My fear is what type of lesson they learned from Lawbreakers, if any...I fear they might think to make even LESS quantities. Only time will tell.

Also, my orders of Rive and Bard's Gold have YET to arrive. Fuckers and their lame ass shipping.

[Aussie2B]

I feel like Wonder Boy would've been a good candidate for preorders. If Skullgirls can sell 7000-some copies just on PS4 alone via preorder, then I would hope and expect that Wonder Boy could at least sell 8000 via preorder. On the other hand, I can't really blame them for wanting to avoid preorders because they've consistently gone badly for them, with the exception of LawBreakers on PC, which is too recent to tell (unless the sales were abysmal; have they released preorder numbers on that?) Skullgirls is all but a disaster and is looking like it'll be around a year, give or take, from when orders were placed until when people will actually receive their copies. The Silver Case had pretty miserable sales compared to the average LRG release and was delayed over manufacturing quality issues. The Octodad tie, which said right on the item page that they were a preorder and would ship later on, resulted in LRG being bombarded for weeks with "WHERE'S MY DAMN TIE" messages. Even releases that aren't intended to be preorders but have to ship a week or two later than planned because they still haven't gotten out of manufacturing results in significant amounts of angry backlash from impatient buyers who expect to receive their games RIGHT NOW and assume they've been swindled if they don't. Granted, the problem is partially self-created. If they always did preorders, buyers would grow accustomed to waiting weeks or months before something ships. But with LRG usually not selling something until they have it in their hands and can ship it out, ideally, within a week of purchase, expectations are formed.

For all the anger over Wonder Boy, I feel like people are missing the fact that, even now, on Monday, both standard copies and LEs of LawBreakers can still be bought, making it one of the longest lasting LRG releases. And for every Jotun, Oceanhorn, and Wonder Boy lately, there have been just as many games lasting well into the weekend. The latter should be recognized, celebrated, and encouraged, in my opinion. That should be the goal for every release, and I think it should be stretched out even further. I would love to see every LRG release stay in stock for at least a week. Yet there are LRG customers ridiculing LawBreakers, talking as if it's some sort of embarrassing failure for LRG, and I'm astounded at how shortsighted and counterproductive they're being by speaking that way. It's like, yeah, let's tell LRG that it's bad when a game doesn't sell out right away, that'll really be beneficial to us.

[Bojay1997]

Anyone been reading LRG's Facebook entries recently? Lots of customers aren't happy with the current model of theirs:











Their method has thrived so far, but looking at comments above, which increase after every release, it seems it may not be the way to go on the long run. I love the idea of limited quantities, but the pre-order option seems to be a great idea. First open pre-orders...once everyone who wants one gets their copies securely, then print out an additional 1,000 copies. Those WILL sell anyway. It's a win-win. My fear is what type of lesson they learned from Lawbreakers, if any...I fear they might think to make even LESS quantities. Only time will tell.

Also, my orders of Rive and Bard's Gold have YET to arrive. Fuckers and their lame ass shipping.

The comments have been that way since the beginning and while this particular release seems to have attracted more people who have never bought from LRG before, they really aren't much different than the comments I have seen on many other Facebooks and Twitters for companies that sell limited products. There are always a handful of people who want someone else to risk their money and very existence of their business so that they can have things the way that they want ithem to be. Can't speak to the shipping as in the mainland US anyway it's fairly reliable and cheap compared to a lot of other similar companies.

[YoshiM]

You are not collecting anymore? Just not in the mood anymore or what happened? Btw, I am also way beyond that I want as many games as possible, but I still spend a lot of money for games.

Well, I got a divorce (on good terms, so nothing vindictive or anything) and got remarried so my family grew to 10 step children on top of my daughter from the first marriage and now I've got a 1 1/2 year old son with my new wife. Life is good but time and space are more limited. I've culled my collection to a few systems that the kids play and that works for me. My wife's house has had an anti tech field that killed some of my stuff (like my Retron 5) so I think that was a hint to adjust the hobby.

[lendelin]

Well, I got a divorce (on good terms, so nothing vindictive or anything) and got remarried so my family grew to 10 step children on top of my daughter from the first marriage and now I've got a 1 1/2 year old son with my new wife. Life is good but time and space are more limited. I've culled my collection to a few systems that the kids play and that works for me. My wife's house has had an anti tech field that killed some of my stuff (like my Retron 5) so I think that was a hint to adjust the hobby.

Sorry to hear about the divorce, and congrats about your new marriage! I'm glad that all works out for you very well, good to hear! Wow, such a big family, and a new son! You must be very proud, Dan, and with such a big family it is very understandable that collecting and gaming isn't so much important to you now. You are absolutely right, there are much more important things in life than games and collecting, although I miss guys like you on this board with whom it was possible to have intelligent and very rational discussions way beyond an election-campaign level.

I read your post about the Retro-Gaming mag, yeah, write something again! I still think that your section about the N64 in the DP Collectors guide is the best section of the book. The comments about the games are very well done. I haven't written about games since my last contribution in the DP fanzine, since then I wrote only boring articles in Political Science, that means a lot in Comparative Politics. But what are explanations about party systems compared to explanations about the difficulties of the Dreamcast and N64? Almost nothing! :)

Great to hear from you, Dan! Enjoy family life!

[kupomogli]

For all the anger over Wonder Boy, I feel like people are missing the fact that, even now, on Monday, both standard copies and LEs of LawBreakers can still be bought, making it one of the longest lasting LRG releases. And for every Jotun, Oceanhorn, and Wonder Boy lately, there have been just as many games lasting well into the weekend. The latter should be recognized, celebrated, and encouraged, in my opinion. That should be the goal for every release, and I think it should be stretched out even further. I would love to see every LRG release stay in stock for at least a week. Yet there are LRG customers ridiculing LawBreakers, talking as if it's some sort of embarrassing failure for LRG, and I'm astounded at how shortsighted and counterproductive they're being by speaking that way. It's like, yeah, let's tell LRG that it's bad when a game doesn't sell out right away, that'll really be beneficial to us.

People are ridiculing LawBreakers because no one wanted the game and LRG forced people into buying half of them by bundling them with copies of WonderBoy because even LRG knew the game wouldn't sell without doing something shady like this.

If LRG had enough stock for all the games that people actually actually wanted, and they lasted atleast 8-24 hours before sell out, I think people would praise LRG. But it's the games that people point out as LRG cash in garbage as the ones that last such a long time, even with low print runs that LRG gets ridiculed. I honestly think Lili will be another one that lasts a fairly long time if the print run is anything close to WonderBoy and LawBreakers.

Now, I will be honest, while I do state that LRG has a lot of shovelware, I'm obviously overexaggerating a bit, but it's true that they do have some shovelware garbage that isn't even a worthy purchase for even fans of the genre. And I said "some," this is actually me throwing some praise towards LRG direction. Most of the stuff is average and fairly decent, and a high note towards LRG is that they've also released atleast three of what's imo the best games on the PS4 with Furi, One Way Heroics, and Shadow Complex, something that I can't say for any other publisher except Sony or Namco Bandai, so bravo. With their future games(games I haven't yet played,) Ys Origins, Salt and Sanctuary, Cosmic Star Heroine, and Battle Princess Madelyn, LRG atleast "looks" like they could have the best publishing line up out of any publisher except and possibly even over Sony.

I wouldn't complain if I didn't care about the games they're releasing. How many shady business practices and negative press do they need to get until they eventually say fu** it and stop publishing games? I mean, I highly doubt they'd stop publishing games as lucrative as this is for them, and not knowing how much they actually make, I'm going to go with the assumption that after shipping costs and everything else, they're probably still making $5 minimum a game after all is said and done, so more than likely making $50-$200k a month. I can guarantee with the money they're making over what they started this business up with, they can take more of a risk and sell out in three days rather than forcing a sell out in one day. When you're making at minimum $50k a month, paying for a few airline tickets on even a weekly basis to promote your company is about as much as your average minimum wage person paying for a tank of gas. I'm sure that people will defend them saying they don't have the budget to do what people are insisting but anyone with some common sense knows damn well they're making bank off of this business. LRG could be doing a hell of a lot more than they're doing right now to get rid of these complaints.

[Bojay1997]

People are ridiculing LawBreakers because no one wanted the game and LRG forced people into buying half of them by bundling them with copies of WonderBoy because even LRG knew the game wouldn't sell without doing something shady like this.

If LRG had enough stock for all the games that people actually actually wanted, and they lasted atleast 8-24 hours before sell out, I think people would praise LRG. But it's the games that people point out as LRG cash in garbage as the ones that last such a long time, even with low print runs that LRG gets ridiculed. I honestly think Lili will be another one that lasts a fairly long time if the print run is anything close to WonderBoy and LawBreakers.

Now, I will be honest, while I do state that LRG has a lot of shovelware, I'm obviously overexaggerating a bit, but it's true that they do have some shovelware garbage that isn't even a worthy purchase for even fans of the genre. And I said "some," this is actually me throwing some praise towards LRG direction. Most of the stuff is average and fairly decent, and a high note towards LRG is that they've also released atleast three of what's imo the best games on the PS4 with Furi, One Way Heroics, and Shadow Complex, something that I can't say for any other publisher except Sony or Namco Bandai, so bravo. With their future games(games I haven't yet played,) Ys Origins, Salt and Sanctuary, Cosmic Star Heroine, and Battle Princess Madelyn, LRG atleast "looks" like they could have the best publishing line up out of any publisher except and possibly even over Sony.

I wouldn't complain if I didn't care about the games they're releasing. How many shady business practices and negative press do they need to get until they eventually say fu** it and stop publishing games? I mean, I highly doubt they'd stop publishing games as lucrative as this is for them, and not knowing how much they actually make, I'm going to go with the assumption that after shipping costs and everything else, they're probably still making $5 minimum a game after all is said and done, so more than likely making $50-$200k a month. I can guarantee with the money they're making over what they started this business up with, they can take more of a risk and sell out in three days rather than forcing a sell out in one day. When you're making at minimum $50k a month, paying for a few airline tickets on even a weekly basis to promote your company is about as much as your average minimum wage person paying for a tank of gas. I'm sure that people will defend them saying they don't have the budget to do what people are insisting but anyone with some common sense knows damn well they're making bank off of this business. LRG could be doing a hell of a lot more than they're doing right now to get rid of these complaints.

What you are saying is objectively untrue. A number of us wanted both WB CE and LB CE as is clear from the LRG forums among other places. Yes, there are undoubtedly people that bought a bundle not caring much about LB and not wanting it, but it's certainly not everyone. They also sold through all of their stock of LB this weekend into this morning, so even without the bundle and given the fact that a number of PC CEs were already sold, there was demand for the game.

I can't say what their profit margin actually is, but even if their gross is 20% as you speculate, they now have eight employees, plus the two founders. It's not like that's free money they can just risk on overprinting games or some other purpose once you factor in taxes, overhead, wages and benefits, insurance, rent, etc...I know I've said this previously, but unless you've actually started your own business and run it for a few years, you really don't have the ability to understand how complicated and difficult it really is. Plenty of people have started businesses that gross $1 million plus a year only to go bankrupt within 12-18 months of starting. I'll give LRG a ton of credit for allowing negative comments on Twitter, Facebook and their own forums without censorship. I know I sure wouldn't put up with a lot of the garbage that people post without knowing anything about the reality of their business or its risks and challenges.

[Aussie2B]

The bundle was a bad idea (at least, for the time in which they put it up), but that's irrelevant to the point I was making in that quote. I also don't care about nor was speaking about people ridiculing the quality of any game itself. What I was talking about, specifically, was the ridiculing of the length of time that a game stays in stock. I don't care if a game is good or bad or if I personally have any interest in it, the goal should be for EVERY game to stay in stock a decent amount time. Anybody who suggests that it is a bad thing, or a failure, for a game to still be available a day or two later has absolutely no right, in my opinion, to then complain when a game they do want sells out in minutes. Those people are only contributing to the problem of print runs that are too small. LRG and the developers who use them want to be seen as successful in the eyes of their customers, so they're only going to avoid the chance of a game lasting for a few days if people are going to point and laugh and call it a flop.

As for Lili, it's getting thousands fewer copies than Wonder Boy and LawBreakers. I don't really know anything about it or what level of demand there is for it, so I couldn't predict how sales will go. I do hope that it lasts at least a day.

[mailman187666]

Random question that kind of strays from what is being discussed. A lot of people say Paypal is the quickest route to take when buying from LRG. I heard you just need to already be signed into paypal and pretty much just hit purchase without adding you credit card info. How can I sign into paypal before making a purchase? just open a new tab and sign into paypal then just select the paypal option during checkout? I mainly ask because I can't test how to do it without being nervous about accidentally buying something.

[Aussie2B]

Yep, just go directly to the PayPal website in another tab and log in there. Most of the time, I log into PayPal during the LRG checkout process, since it only takes a matter of seconds, but when I feel like what I want might sell out extremely fast (especially when they have cover variants that are like <1000 copies), I figure I may as well shave off that tiny bit of time too.

[kupomogli]

Good and bad thing for LawBreakers just came up today. Good thing is that the game being online only meaning the disc is completely worthless after the game is no longer being played, this issue being patched doesn't matter. Bad thing is, there's an issue that makes the game kind of unplayable, so on PS4, so you have to wonder how long will the game even be played on the consoles? Watch the DigitalFoundry video to see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYBTAhp1s6Y

[megasdkirby]

Now there is a PC version of Night Trap for Friday? Geez...

https://limitedrungames.com/collections/games/products/night-trap-25th-anniversary-pc

Also, I think it's a bad idea for them to accept TWO of the regular editions of Night Trap and The Bunker. Those will sell, and (at least Night Trap), all 5,000 copies will sell fast AND give enough people a chance at getting at least the normal copy.

[SparTonberry]

Again, these games can be bought digitally, so an unlimited number of people can "play the damn things". It's also not a matter of not caring, it's a matter of running a sustainable business that doesn't fold the second they hit a bump in the road on a release that not enough people preorder to make it viable (i.e. the situation Gaijinworks and Iam8Bit have both been in). Also, there are now 8,000 copies of Wonderboy that have been sold physically and thousands more through Play Asia. It's not exactly five copies in a world where these are niche titles that most consumers are happy to buy digitally if at all.

They won't be able to buy it digitally in ten years.
And about five copies... "hyperbole". :P

A comparable example might be the Famicom Disk System Disk Writier-exclusives and the Super Famicom Nintendo Power (aka SF Memory) exclusives. While the rewriting services were active, an unlimited number of copies could be made since people could pay to overwrite their old disk/cart. But now that the rewriting service is over, the number of copies is limited to those which were never overwritten. And such are worth a lot of money (which means paying far too much money if you want to play the game and aren't into collecting) (especially since many who chose to never overwrite the games probably wanted to keep them).
I realize it's not exactly the same, since modern digital games use storage media that can store many games so there's less reason to delete.

[Bojay1997]

They won't be able to buy it digitally in ten years.
And about five copies... "hyperbole". :P

A comparable example might be the Famicom Disk System Disk Writier-exclusives and the Super Famicom Nintendo Power (aka SF Memory) exclusives. While the rewriting services were active, an unlimited number of copies could be made since people could pay to overwrite their old disk/cart. But now that the rewriting service is over, the number of copies is limited to those which were never overwritten. And such are worth a lot of money (which means paying far too much money if you want to play the game and aren't into collecting) (especially since many who chose to never overwrite the games probably wanted to keep them).
I realize it's not exactly the same, since modern digital games use storage media that can store many games so there's less reason to delete.

Plenty of games from older platforms are being made available digitally on modern platforms everyday. This isn't 1985 anymore. Moreover, physical media is not necessarily a guarantee that something will still be functional as plenty of CD-Roms from the 90s are no longer playable due to the poor quality of the original media. Even Indiebox had problems with its early releases just a few years ago on USB sticks to the point that a number of their early releases are no longer playable using the original media.

My point stands, if people just want to play this game now and well into the conceivable future, there is a lower cost and unlimited option available to them. If they want a physical copy, LRG is available to them with minimal effort.

[mailman187666]

Is anyone else anxious for Night Trap today? I'm just going to go for a standard copy as I just want the game. I know it'll sell out fast, but I am confident. Last week with Wonderboy, I failed buying the CE and reverted back to the standard and was still able to purchase it. That was even after wasting time trying to get the CE.

[megasdkirby]

I'm a bit scared. But I will hope for the best.

I really don't understand why they said "TWO PER CUSTOMER" on the basic release of Night Trap. That will make things harder.

I'm starting to believe that they indeed to cater to scalpers...

Oh, and look at this!

https://limitedrungames.com/products/fmv-friday-mega-bundle

No way I'm getting that.

[megasdkirby]

Managed to get The Bunker AND Night Trap CE. It was terribly slow and they took out the Amazon CHeckout option. Bastards.

It was very, very slow at checkout. I was so scared.

Anyone get theirs?

[mailman187666]

I got my standard edition because I didn't want to risk possibly wasting time with the CE and missing out on the standard. I also decided to get Bunker as well in a separate transaction.

[lendelin]

It can't be that the salesmodel of Limited Run is tailored towards ebay scalpers! The owners are way too honest and decent to do that! Their sales do not take into account outrageous ebay prices nor do they use ebay scalping to sell their games.

Quote Limited Run: "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"

Result 1:

Night Trap lasted 90 seconds, the CE of Night Trap even less. It is impossible to buy both sperately in one sitting because you have to count the seconds. Even ten seconds to login to Paypal counts, if you are 30 seconds too late, it is too late already. How convenient, how easy, how effortless shopping can be nowadays. The Bunker was even up an entire hour! ONE HOUR! Incredible, I mean you can't ask for a better service!

It is also impossible to do it another way without the limited production numbers and rarity hype! Why? Because the owners of Limited Run would otherwise "sink our company and our developers, endanger our livelihood." And don't forget: "Atari crashed the industry by overprinting. There isn't unlimited demand for this stuff."

You don't want the industry to crash again, do you? We would end up with another R.O.B.!

Result 2:

Great ebay prices. If you didn't get it by now or if you won't get it tonight with the second batch (every second will count again!!), you can always conveniently get it on ebay. It is terrible that some critics act like these games disappear, they are always effortlessly and conveniently available on secondary markets.

One hour after the sale started:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xnight+tra p+ps4.TRS0&_nkw=night+trap+ps4&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIGHT-TRAP-COLLECTORS-EDITION-PS4-LIMITED-RUN-GAMES-74-/263139108536?hash=item3d445026b8:g:LDoAAOSw5JJZjbr F

You know, slowly I think we all deserve Limited Run Games! What a great company! Slickness and snake oil salesmethods always prevail. :)