U.S. Sonic with UPC sells for $981.33

[TonyTheTiger]

1)Witness testimony of high-ranking Sega officials at the time of release

Ok, what did they witness? The affixing of the stickers? The distribution of the game? All this proves is that the game was sold in America. That was never the crux of the matter. We'd have to see some specific intent to create American copies, not just distribute European ones.

2)Witness testimony of people who saw it/purchased it in stores in the USA.

Same as above. We know it was sold in American stores. So were a lot of imports. I've mentioned Radiant Silvergun like a bazillion times and I'm starting to realize the repetition is probably becoming annoying.

3)No copies being found in the wild anywhere else have been reported.

I fail to see how this matters. So what if the UPC was exclusive to the batch that was sold in America? You have to show that the UPC makes a difference first. What does UPC have to do with region? Show me something.

4)Adverts from Sega proclaiming the release of Sonic in the US.

This is the same as 1 and 2. We know it was sold in America. Other imports have been sold here. Adverts tell us nothing about whether or not a game is an American copy.

5)Three other games that have the same issue, all being US releases, all being recognized as such.

Three other games that probably shouldn't be counted as U.S. games, then. Are you fishing for hypocrisy? Trust me, I'm all about consistency here.

While I am generally a skeptic, it is wrong to say 'nothing concrete'. Find me concrete proof SE was pulled from shelves, and not just snapped up and hoarded. If you have just testimony and words on a page, you have the same evidence you are condemning.

I have more than testimony and words on a page. I've proven pretty handily that UPC codes don't matter, at least in the context of what we're talking about. I call that pretty concrete. I've not seen anything like that from the other side.

It sounds like you're heading up the 'the UPC doesn't mean it came from the US, it coulda been sold like that anywhere' creek.

No, I'm pretty confident in people's assertions that the UPC only appears on a small number of Sonics and all of those individual items were sold in America. I'm not challenging that fact. So it's not like my argument is based on the possibility that some random Sonic with UPC showed up in Peru. What I'm saying is that even accepting that the Sonics sold in America were all given a UPC, that UPC does not make the game American. It doesn't make the game anything. It's just an arbitrary sticker.

At this point, sir, it is you who lack evidence and need to provide it. If I claim Toyotas are made in Zimbabwe, and say words from the president of Toyota aren't evidence in this argument, what exactly can you give me that's sufficient evidence? And does not the burden of proof switch to me at that point? You've made it an impossible-to-convince-you scenario. Short of a time machine, scouring every store in the world in 91, I don't think you will accept anything as evidence. If I am wrong, please give me what you would require for proof that the sticker=US release.

Again, I've provided both concrete evidence and extrapolated logical scenarios based on the claims of others. That's why I keep hammering on Radiant Silvergun in the first place.

As for your question, some specific intent to create a new version. See below. At least that would be the smoking gun I was talking about. Still an annoying and stupid situation but at least it would be something.

In the case of the SMS, I think they are. I'm surprised I still have this info on my PC but I saved it from when someone mentioned it years ago.

European boxes UPCs start with 4974365
American boxes UPCs start with 010086
Canadian boxes UPCs start with 069044

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. Sales tracking, perhaps? Could make some difference. Still a strange situation, though, especially with that Canada stuff mentioned.