How popular is the Genesis these days?

[o.pwuaioc]

That rule doesn't really work here because TurboGrafx-16 games are usually priced pretty outrageously, and that company doesn't make games anymore either. Going by this logic, TurboGrafx-16 should be worthless now and it's not.

Nonsense. Just because one cause is true doesn't mean that it's the only cause. We have to factor in rarity, too. TG-16 games are much rarer than Genesis ones, so, even though it's off the radar, yes fewer people want them, but there are fewer going around, too.

Also, he didn't mention prices, but the price of the average Genesis game has doubled in the past 8 years, and went up significantly since 2011. I think we can thank/blame the internet for that.

I also don't know why people want the Genesis to be popular. I'd love for it to be unheard of, because the games generally aren't rare, and if they're unhyped, then they remain cheap. I'd wish for all the Youtube reviewers to just go away, and let the unknowns remain unknown so I can discover it on my own. (I'm OK with written stuff, because it's appeals to the younger, hip, retro because it's cool audience a lot less than video reviews. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky.)

[bigbacon]

I also don't know why people want the Genesis to be popular. I'd love for it to be unheard of, because the games generally aren't rare, and if they're unhyped, then they remain cheap. I'd wish for all the Youtube reviewers to just go away, and let the unknowns remain unknown so I can discover it on my own. (I'm OK with written stuff, because it's appeals to the younger, hip, retro because it's cool audience a lot less than video reviews. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky.)

this is sort of how I feel about the Master System. Least in the USA, it wasn't big, no one really knows anything about it. Stores that sell retro games usually don't care anything for it and don't even know how to price it because they don't get it and no one buys it. Almost the entire USA catalog of games can be bought very cheap in cart only form and not that much more for a CIB (minus a few)

It was lost in time because of the NES.

[o.pwuaioc]

this is sort of how I feel about the Master System. Least in the USA, it wasn't big, no one really knows anything about it. Stores that sell retro games usually don't care anything for it and don't even know how to price it because they don't get it and no one buys it. Almost the entire USA catalog of games can be bought very cheap in cart only form and not that much more for a CIB (minus a few)

It was lost in time because of the NES.

Thank goodness, too! I'm still working on my Master System collection. There are about 30 more that a want, a couple of those are already obscenely expensive. What's worse is that I can't import from Japan, although PAL games run the same, so that's pretty cool. I grabbed Sonic the Hedgehog pretty cheap precisely because it was a PAL game. Same with Power Strike.

[bigbacon]

Thank goodness, too! I'm still working on my Master System collection. There are about 30 more that a want, a couple of those are already obscenely expensive. What's worse is that I can't import from Japan, although PAL games run the same, so that's pretty cool. I grabbed Sonic the Hedgehog pretty cheap precisely because it was a PAL game. Same with Power Strike.

All I'm missing is Buster Douglas, I don't think I spent more than 80 dollars on a CIB game. I would say 80% were under 25 bucks.

Buster Douglas and Sonic WITH the UPC sticker are the most expensive ones, everything else could be had for under 100 bucks.

[o.pwuaioc]

All I'm missing is Buster Douglas, I don't think I spent more than 80 dollars on a CIB game. I would say 80% were under 25 bucks.

Buster Douglas and Sonic WITH the UPC sticker are the most expensive ones, everything else could be had for under 100 bucks.

$80 for me is too expensive. I think the most I've shelled out for a game was for Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen, which costs, cart only, about as much as it did when it was released.

[Melf]

Yeah, TG-16 games, especially complete ones, are much rarer than Genesis games. Some of the CD titles can be downright outrageous expensive too.

I've noticed an upward trend of Genesis game prices on eBay over the past year or two. Titles that used to go for under $10 are now $15-$20. People seem to be noticing that there are lots of games and many of them are complete (thank you, clamshells!). I've noticed a similar trend with Master System titles too, though not to the same extent.

[Rickstilwell1]

I was under the impression that higher prices = higher popularity regardless of rarity. Just look at Earthbound and Suikoden II. The games are merely an R4 and they are worth more than most R5's, R6's and R7's. Even an R8 game system is worth less than them because it is not popular.

So what I mean is that it looks like from the outside that SNES is more popular because almost all the game prices are higher. From my memory, the SNES and Playstation were both the most popular in my area among all the kids I knew. They either had just the SNES or both the SNES and Sega Genesis during the 16 bit era. I was one of the lucky kids who got to have a hand-me-down NES after already getting a Genesis and getting to keep them all when I got the SNES. As far as my friends went, a lot of them sold their Genesis when the Playstation came out but they kept their SNES around.

Price comes from an equation of rarity + demand, and also sometimes original price is a factor too (for example Neo Geo AES)

[wiggyx]

it's a shame you didn't play the game properly, then? levels had multiple ways of being explored/completed, as well as Sonic 2 and later pack-ins like Streets of Rage 1/2, the superior Aladdin title, etc but those didn't quite fit your narrative there.

"Properly"? Ugh. I don't like Sonic 1. You're just gonna have to deal with it.

• I pointed out that AB is sorta crummy
• Someone else excused its crumminess by citing it as a pack-in
• I brought up SMW as an example of why being a pack-in is NOT an excuse to be a crappy game.

this is literally the point you brought up & continue harping on

I didn't bring it up. Also, you clearly missed my point.

what happened here was you spoke on something you don't seem to know about & comfortably painted it with a broad brush; when called on it, you got snippy/unnecessarily nasty.

I was called "simple", which is a gentle way of saying mentally deficient or retarded. I wasn't the one who got "nasty".

no one here has yet said your SNES didn't have absolute classics (and a better launch lineup, hands down!), but your statement on 60-minute games was something i'd expect of a person whose only experience with the gen/system came from wikipedia, and you don't seem to be that. you're welcome to correct me there but there's no need for insults or assumptions on the fantastic library the SNES provided - the fact that other scenes like Sega, NEC, Neo-Geo etc get slept on by various current retrospectives is indeed a larger topic worthy of discussion on another thread, but it's not in any way evident of quality, the way billboard rankings don't indicate the same.

"My SNES"? If you're offended by my opinion of early Genesis titles, then I don't know what to tell ya. I don't take someone else's opinion about a video game personally or as an insult. I also wouldn't dismiss their opinion as assumption just because I don't agree. That's rather presumptuous.

you're absolutely right on SNES overall popularity though, if we're actually back on topic here. the retro bubble the SNES scene is currently seeing is insane, as far as inflating prices - even on mass-printed titles - but i guess i kinda get it for CIB titles since so few of us actually kept the boxes.

Yup.

ehhh Shinobi only takes a bit longer than that when you've mastered it, which i wouldn't necessarily conflate with arcade by nature; you can breeze through mario games when you know what you're doing, but certainly not the first time through. the popularity of speedruns these days show that many a game can be finished quickly, i don't think that's a stirke against them. Shinobi also offers great gameplay, a fantastic soundtrack & big bosses worth revisiting; i take your points on Populus and prolly Mystic Defender too, but again we're talking about '89 (launch year) and not the next 5 years which is silly since SNES library was slow/small as fuck early on and like many great systems, most noteworthy titles showed up around halfway through its lifetime or so.

And that's your opinion, which is just fine. I feel that its arcade game-like length coupled with low replay value make it a so-so game at best.

I'm not at all trying to make this an SNES vs Genesis thing. I only ever brought up the SNES because of the idea that a pack-in game gets a free pass to be crummy because it's "free". But since you went there, all 3 SNES launch titles are still considered good games (SMW, Pilotwings, and F-Zero). Sure, there were only 3 launch titles, but I know that I will always choose quality over quantity.

Are you excusing the overall poor quality of Genesis launch titles based on the fact that they are launch titles?

Remember, you made the comparison, I'm just responding to it. I'm neither harping on nor did I bring up.

i mean, fair enough, but....how much did you play it in '93/94? many missed some of its absolute best like Crusader of Centy, Beyond Oasis, Contra Hard Crops, Castlevania Bloodlines, Dynamite Headdy, Punisher, Shadowrun, Shining Force II, etc.

Played and play it still, which I've already covered.

I bought my 1st Genesis within a week of launch and my SNES on launch day. I've played both a LOT over the years...

I wasn't ever hating on the Genesis, but rather making a commentary on the state of the industry at the time.

Again, I like the Genesis. I own a few, plus a couple of Nomads, a few portable Genesis clones, a CD & 32X, not to mention games. I think I own around 75 Genny games right now.

Again, subjective. I don't know what you would consider to be strictly a "launch" title, but how many people would consider the SNES port of Gradius III or China Warrior to be top 100 games? It all depends on opinion.

I was referring to the entire Genesis launch lineup. You're talking about one (technically not a) launch title.

Altered Beast was never meant to be a "top 100" game. It was meant to show off the console's capabilities. That's why it was chosen as the pack-in title.

My point exactly. Why can you not see that? It's a crummy game all dressed up in pretty graphics, which, as I said, were a HUGE selling point in the late 80's and early 90's. How is this an argument against any point I've made?

Prices on the secondary market remain high for games of a company that never left the hardware business and still sells consoles, while those for games made by a company that left the hardware business more than a decade ago haven't really climbed? SHOCKED.

Can you show me where I argued this point?

If I were to use your argument, I could say that the Genesis is more popular than the SNES because the SNES doesn't have a comprehensive website devoted to it. I don't, however, because that wouldn't be a valid argument.

What?

I get the impression that you didn't really give these games a chance. The Revenge of Shinobi is a long game that has multiple endings. Unless you speed run it, I highly doubt you finished it in 30 minutes. Yeah, Super Thunderblade sucked, as did a few others. They weren't all bad, though. Personally, I had lots of fun with Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle (being a fan from the Master System), and games like Golden Axe (much better than the arcade) and Forgotten Worlds gave me hours of fun. Again, it's all subjective.

For fuck's sake, you guys are killing me. Defending the honor of the Genesis to the bitter end as if I ever said that it's without solid titles in its library.

Heaven forbid anyone ever make a general statement lest they wish to be bombarded with every little nuance, detail, and particular related to the subject. I feel I could say that water is pretty much flavorless, and I'm almost positive that you guys could find 50 ways to explain to me why that's not true and how I haven't properly experienced water.

Sheesh.

[Melf]

I was under the impression that higher prices = higher popularity regardless of rarity. Just look at Earthbound and Suikoden II. The games are merely an R4 and they are worth more than most R5's, R6's and R7's. Even an R8 game system is worth less than them because it is not popular.

So what I mean is that it looks like from the outside that SNES is more popular because almost all the game prices are higher. From my memory, the SNES and Playstation were both the most popular in my area among all the kids I knew. They either had just the SNES or both the SNES and Sega Genesis during the 16 bit era. I was one of the lucky kids who got to have a hand-me-down NES after already getting a Genesis and getting to keep them all when I got the SNES. As far as my friends went, a lot of them sold their Genesis when the Playstation came out but they kept their SNES around.

Price comes from an equation of rarity + demand, and also sometimes original price is a factor too (for example Neo Geo AES)

I don't know if I agree. A lot of games are highly priced simply because they're rare. That doesn't necessarily equate to popularity. The TG-16 CD has a lot of rare games. This doesn't mean it's as popular or more so than the SNES. The NES has tons of cheap, common games yet remains quite popular. High prices come from a lot of factors, least of which involve popularity or game quality. Collectors are nuts and aren't necessarily buying for warm, fuzzy feelings. Just look at the sealed game market.

My point exactly. Why can you not see that? It's a crummy game all dressed up in pretty graphics, which, as I said, were a HUGE selling point in the late 80's and early 90's. How is this an argument against any point I've made?

You generalized Altered Beast. "So many of the games were terrible or had about 60 minutes of play value attached." I'm simply saying that not all games were like that, and that fact in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Frankly, I don't understand why you're even arguing against this. So many games on all consoles at the time were like this. Why is it a bad thing on the Genesis? Did you really spend hours and hours with Pilotwings or Gyromite?

Can you show me where I argued this point?

Sure. You said:

The popularity of the SNES holds quite strong while that of the Genesis dwindles.

How are you certain that the popularity of the Genesis is "dwindling?" Because people don't pay $150 for carts that are quite common, like Earthbound? You're saying that second hand market prices = popularity. One having more monetary value than the other doesn't necessarily mean that it's more popular. There are plenty of consoles with games much more expensive than those on the SNES. Does that mean they're more popular?

What?

My exact reaction to your comparison. I answered this in the above quote.

For fuck's sake, you guys are killing me. Defending the honor of the Genesis to the bitter end as if I ever said that it's without solid titles in its library.

Heaven forbid anyone ever make a general statement lest they wish to be bombarded with every little nuance, detail, and particular related to the subject. I feel I could say that water is pretty much flavorless, and I'm almost positive that you guys could find 50 ways to explain to me why that's not true and how I haven't properly experienced water.

You made a sweeping generalization founded on opinion and were surprised to find that others felt differently. For someone so eager to call out fanboys, you're awfully defensive. No one is attacking your opinion. They're jumping on you for making blanket statements without anything more than an opinion to back them up. I don't understand how you feel you can do so and then get all defensive when others do the exact same thing.

As I said, I have no problem with you having an opinion. You're entitled to it. I completely disagree, but such is the nature of subjective discussions. I do have issues with the way you worded it. That's what caused the controversy, I'd wager.

[BricatSegaFan]

"Again, I like the Genesis. I own a few, plus a couple of Nomads

Speaking of which, about those Nomad X units.....

[genesisguy]

"


And that's your opinion, which is just fine. I feel that its arcade game-like length coupled with low replay value make it a so-so game at best.

I'm not at all trying to make this an SNES vs Genesis thing. I only ever brought up the SNES because of the idea that a pack-in game gets a free pass to be crummy because it's "free". But since you went there, all 3 SNES launch titles are still considered good games (SMW, Pilotwings, and F-Zero). Sure, there were only 3 launch titles, but I know that I will always choose quality over quantity.

Are you excusing the overall poor quality of Genesis launch titles based on the fact that they are launch titles?

Remember, you made the comparison, I'm just responding to it. I'm neither harping on nor did I bring up.


Sheesh.

When was the last time you actually played through Revenge of Shinobi? It certainly doesn't have "arcade game-like length" More along the lines of a Castlevania styled game than a quarter muncher.

I think if given a choice I'd chose Altered Beast over Pilotwings. Both were early games and as Melf pointed out Altered Beast's point was to show the Genesis's capability of bringing home the arcade experience. Pilotwings on the other hand was basically a tech demo that showed of the SNES's capabilities. It's just me but I'd rather play something reminiscent of a late 80s arcade game than a dated tech demo.

[goldenband]

I think if given a choice I'd chose Altered Beast over Pilotwings. Both were early games and as Melf pointed out Altered Beast's point was to show the Genesis's capability of bringing home the arcade experience. Pilotwings on the other hand was basically a tech demo that showed of the SNES's capabilities. It's just me but I'd rather play something reminiscent of a late 80s arcade game than a dated tech demo.

I have no idea how this idea that Pilotwings is a glorified "tech demo" got so much traction. I've seen it repeated in a bunch of places, and when I fired it up a few years back, I expected to be totally unmoved -- but instead I found it was one of the most addictive games I've played on the SNES! Same goes for Pilotwings 64. They're incredibly well-balanced, smoothly designed, look and sound great, and are just a pleasure to play.

I actually enjoy both games -- Altered Beast was kind of an acquired taste, but improves immensely once you learn the stages well. Even so, I'd give the edge to Pilotwings for sure.

[o.pwuaioc]

Pilotwings is phenomenal. Seriously, it's 100x better than Altered Beast. Maybe AB is an acquired taste, but I see no reason to pursue it further with the 100+ better Genesis games out there.

I love how people are ignorantly arguing against wiggyx and are making his point for him. Bravo, Genesis fanboys. Way to give fans of one of the best consoles out there a bad name.

inb4 "nintendo fanboy" bullshit. I even disagree with wiggyx. Sonic 1 was superb!

[Gameguy]

Pilotwings is phenomenal. Seriously, it's 100x better than Altered Beast. Maybe AB is an acquired taste, but I see no reason to pursue it further with the 100+ better Genesis games out there.

Personally I dislike both games. I can still play them from time to time, but no more than 10 minutes before I just turn them off. Then I'm good for another few years before going back to them.

I will say that Altered Beast is better than Keith Courage.

[o.pwuaioc]

Personally I dislike both games. I can still play them from time to time, but no more than 10 minutes before I just turn them off. Then I'm good for another few years before going back to them.

I will say that Altered Beast is better than Keith Courage.

With the hate that Keith Courage gets, I sort of feel bad for it. Pilotwings isn't for everybody. It's not, I think, one of those love it or hate it games, though. Seems there are a number of fans, a number of detractors, and a lot of people in the middle. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone defend Keith Courage, though.

[Rickstilwell1]

Pilotwings is also a bit more unique in terms of gameplay. Altered Beast is just another one of those random side scrolling combat games. A genre that had spread like chicken pox by the time Pilotwings came out.

[IrishNinja]

yeah, Turbo games (like Saturn ones here) at least had a lower print run, but even then i don't think prices are outrageous, for the most part...some stuff i looked up like Air Zonk was way higher than id've expected though. shopping for PCE (and JP saturn, for the same reasons) is way cheaper/better, when possible!

I was under the impression that higher prices = higher popularity regardless of rarity. Just look at Earthbound and Suikoden II. The games are merely an R4 and they are worth more than most R5's, R6's and R7's. Even an R8 game system is worth less than them because it is not popular.

pardon my ignorance here, but i've not seen the R4/5/etc distinctions prior; what is that?

"Properly"? Ugh. I don't like Sonic 1. You're just gonna have to deal with it.

that's fine, and i wasn't trying to be snooty - there's a notion in recent years that sonic is about pressing right to win; classic sonic titles had multi-tiered levels with several ways to finish them & lots to explore, if you were so inclined. I was just pointing that out because i think a lotta people missed that until about Sonic 3 (secret stages) or Sonic CD (future/past signs).

• I pointed out that AB is sorta crummy
• Someone else excused its crumminess by citing it as a pack-in
• I brought up SMW as an example of why being a pack-in is NOT an excuse to be a crappy game.

...
I'm not at all trying to make this an SNES vs Genesis thing. I only ever brought up the SNES because of the idea that a pack-in game gets a free pass to be crummy because it's "free". But since you went there, all 3 SNES launch titles are still considered good games (SMW, Pilotwings, and F-Zero). Sure, there were only 3 launch titles, but I know that I will always choose quality over quantity.

Are you excusing the overall poor quality of Genesis launch titles based on the fact that they are launch titles?

someone else mentioned how your original statement seemed to imply post-launch stuff, but i do find your fixation with launch titles troubling. Personally, i don't think ive seen a great console launch lineup since the Dreamcast, and that had a huge lead in japan to get them out the door. I'd even go so far as to say all 4 gens of Playstation have had medium to okay launches at best, but who focuses on this when looking back at any of them? The N64 had one of the best launch titles of all time, but not much for a great deal of time after that...it's a weird criteria to focus on, i think.

Pilotwings is phenomenal. Seriously, it's 100x better than Altered Beast. Maybe AB is an acquired taste, but I see no reason to pursue it further with the 100+ better Genesis games out there.

haha this is a weird comparison but yeah, id agree Pilotwings is way better. it's a mode 7 tech demo basically but ends up being fun, whereas i didn't get that from the 3DS game sadly.

I love how people are ignorantly arguing against wiggyx and are making his point for him. Bravo, Genesis fanboys. Way to give fans of one of the best consoles out there a bad name.

if you've been following, the ignorance was pointed out multiple times regarding his statement about arcadey titles with no replacy value (which somehow incorporated Shinobi) and conflated launch lineups with other titles. if discussing something rationally & pointing out mistakes "gives things a bad name" or makes fanboys of people, i suppose i'm on the wrong forum?

[calgon]

So I mentioned this before but I want to add more to my genesis library this year as well as play some neglected games I hadn't gotten around to. I'm thinking it's best to compliment the loose games I already own with their cases and manuals (see my post in the orphanage) before I go on to buff my collection up. So after digging through my closet I found a game I didn't realize I even owned which is the genesis version of Ys III. Anyways, I went on a tear last night and ended up getting to the mountains and dying. It somehow slipped my mind to save frequently and my last save was way, way back at the tigre mines several levels lower! I have to re-adjust myself to play old school again

[o.pwuaioc]

haha this is a weird comparison but yeah, id agree Pilotwings is way better. it's a mode 7 tech demo basically but ends up being fun, whereas i didn't get that from the 3DS game sadly.

Well, we're just talking about launch titles, so that's the comparison. Pilotwings may have been technically a tech demo, but it's a superb one at that. I never spent much time with the N64 or 3DS version. I demoed the 3DS version back during launch, but the 3D killed me, and after turning it off, I thought it was only OK. I'd give it another shot.

if you've been following, the ignorance was pointed out multiple times regarding his statement about arcadey titles with no replacy value (which somehow incorporated Shinobi) and conflated launch lineups with other titles. if discussing something rationally & pointing out mistakes "gives things a bad name" or makes fanboys of people, i suppose i'm on the wrong forum?

You're not really correcting, though. The original mistake isn't there. I can see how out of context the statement can be taken, but in context it seems pretty clear to me.

[Koa Zo]

You're not really correcting, though. The original mistake isn't there.

for the 3rd or 4th time:

In the late 80's and early 90's the graphics improvement over the NES was everything.(...) So many of the games were terrible or had about 60 minutes of play value attached (...).

"In the late 80's and early 90's ...so many of the games were terrible"

Are you still pretending that the discussion was about launch games?